As an offshoot of another thread, I'd like to continue the conversation that was taking place, re: marker training, as well as Foot Step Tracking/Sport Tracking vs trailing/air scenting and Tracking thru Drive.

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

As an offshoot of another thread, I'd like to continue the conversation that was taking place, re: marker training, as well as Foot Step Tracking/Sport Tracking vs trailing/air scenting and Tracking thru Drive.

Maybe we could address training methods OF tracking styles.

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

FST's major application would be in Law Enforcement style work, where it is critical to retrace someone's actual footsteps.

In other forms of tracking, the ends justify the means, that is, if the dog finds what they are looking for, a person for example, it doesn't really matter how they get there.

In Search and Rescue, or in area searches, the dog is using more trailing and air scenting techniques. The use the scent coming off of the person, floating in the air, to find the person.

If, however, the objective is to retrace someone's footsteps, and find things they may have dropped along the way, as in a crime scene, then FST is the only way to go. ...

Well, I can try, but I'm no expert, by far.

I can tell you what I've done wrong with my dog, LOL.

Experts will join in.



I haven't done anything but FST. How can marker training be used to teach trailing/air scenting and Tracking thru Drive?

The one thing I use my clicker for with tracking is the articles which I havent started on the track yet. I'm training for sport only, and it's funny Alyssa but other then how I lay the tracks it's almost like the less I'm involved the better he does.

Marker training can work with training tracking to an extent... the limitations are more with the handler, not the method.
You want to make sure you aren't just training body position and behavior, but that you are actually training the dog to scent.

Especially with FST, I've seen dogs that aren't tracking at all. They just get to the flag, put their head down and start walking along.
If someone other than their own handler is tracking them, they'll walk right off the track, nose down.
It's a show, the dog never actually learned to track. He learned to read the handler's nuances, keep his nose down, and got "lucky" finding the food. This isn't a problem with marker training, but a result of improper application.

A lot of the leash communication that takes place between handler and dog, in the beginning of training, could be described as marker training.
Head goes down into the track, and we move forward.
Head lifts off the track, we stop.

The dog learns that the only way to move forward, is to put it's head down into the scent.

Like all forms of tracking though, if the dog lacks the interest and aptitude for it, no amount of training, marker or otherwise, will make the dog a successful tracker.

All dogs can learn obedience.
Not all dogs can learn sport.

If a novice can play this game, I'll show my undecision with what I'm doing with Cassie.
This dog is absolutely driven on her nose, period. She'll air scent first, then (if I understand the terminology correctly) she'll trail if air scenting doesn't get her any where, if either of those tactics doesn't work for her, she'll start over and step track. She never gives up until the prize is found though. I've often taken pleasure in watching this progress in her thinking and work. Lately though, she's getting very good with the air scenting and narrowing down the cone to the scene (prize). Could be just the change in seasons. (lots of wind)
I'm rather torn between just letting her do her thing or training her to just use one facet of her talent. Food? That's a laugher for her.
My present sig picture is of her tracking down her tug, if I remember correctly, on a 20 or 30 minute trail, in dry conditions, no wind (two turns), of about 200 yards. Too easy for her, I just barely got the shot off before she found it.

She's a waste in my hands, she should be saving lives.
Randy

Edited by randy allen (09/19/2008 03:04 PM)
Edit reason: and isn't or

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

If someone other than their own handler is tracking them, they'll walk right off the track, nose down.
It's a show, the dog never actually learned to track. ...

A lot of the leash communication that takes place between handler and dog, in the beginning of training, could be described as marker training.
Head goes down into the track, and we move forward.
Head lifts off the track, we stop.

So, why not drop the lead, train for the scent first, work on speed second? Marker training for other movement behaviors is done without leash tension.

(For those of you not on the first thread, I'm a know-nothing in the tracking world. I've read a lot on clicker training, but can't get it to work in practice for me. It's rather ironic if not stupid for me to be advising anyone on the matter, so feel free to run me over.)

 Quote: randy allen

She's a waste in my hands, she should be saving lives.

Does your local police station accept volunteers? No reason why she can't save lives in your hands? My girl scout leader used to volunteer with some S&R group. Just an ordinary lady that liked training her dogs...

 Quote: Denise Skidmore

 Quote: randy allen

She's a waste in my hands, she should be saving lives.

Does your local police station accept volunteers? No reason why she can't save lives in your hands? My girl scout leader used to volunteer with some S&R group. Just an ordinary lady that liked training her dogs...

A lot of folks don't like bite-trained dogs for SAR, and many (not all) SAR orgs will chase you away with torches and pitchforks for even considering it.