Civil agitation & Prey work chained to a fence, sometimes I try to sharpen my dogs skill by going back through their basic. Which means me working, with them by myself. Because sometimes, I don't find the time to arrange time to have a helper/trainer come by.

Here is the problem their commands are not as define as they are when I'm behind them on lease.

Here is how I set up the test reveiw, I will use a (spring loaded, chain) tie out linked to a chain link fence. I place the dog in a sit, when I issue the "Watchem command", he attacks, the prey item, instead of barking and standing his ground.

Even civil (no shelve or tug), from the sit he doesn't wait for the command to watchem, as soon as I start my approach he starts barking and trying to get at me.

Where did I get my wires crossed? I reviewed Ed's Protection training tapes, they don't use any commands here.

Is there a way to sharpen the commands doing this type of review, by yourself? Am I asking too much from them or is it the obvious, me again.

Straighten me out, so I can help them. We do this one dog at a time. The others are locked behind another fence around the corner. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

OH GOD......

1) YOU CAN'T DO CIVIL AGITITATION ON YOUR OWN DOG.
Civil agitation is a defensive test/training method. It involves teaching the dog an agressive reaction to the agitator. If you are doing the agitation, you are teaching the dog to be agressive to you. Is that your intention?

2) Watch 'em is an alert command directed at a person you want the dog to be aggressive to. Do you want the dog to be aggressive to you?

3) When you place the dogs on the fence they know what the game is. If they are barking it is out of frustration to get the prey item. It hadn't better be an attempt to aggressively drive off a potential threat. Unless you want the dog to aggressively drive you away from them.

The type of work you are trying to do requires a helper/agitator. The dog understands what you should want, and is terribly confused as to what you are telling it to do. It knows that you don't want it to go after YOU.

I read this post from goodogu, and I am really sorry, but the only thing that came to mind is 'what an idiot'. Thanks Richard for being more explanatory.

Thanks Richard and Doberman

So only prey work can be done by the owner. I was told by a trainer/friend over the phone, that civil agitation could be practiced in a tied out situation, by the owner. After this civil work I issue the "enough" command and they stop barking and snapping, when I approach to remove them from the chest harness.

So no commands, except the out, should be used in the prey agitation. This is what I wanted to hear (not that I'm stupid just cheap and ignorant). I need to know where the problem was. Me again.

And I noticed in Ed's tape he does always use a Agitator in the civil work and no commands, that I could hear. I'll review the tape.

Now tell me the bad news, I didn't messed them up too bad?

I can only work on commands as the handler. On or off lease. So how do you work protection commands by yourself?

I guess without smart dogs and good Ob, I could have got my ass bit off.

Civil agitation by me, will stop, as of today. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Members of this board do not have ignorance as an excuse. This board has 1000's of pages of information and it's free. Please use it!!

Ok, Ok kick my a**. I deserve it.

What I really want to know is did this hurt my dogs any, I'm not hurt and they seem to love being around me so no harm done to me.

What about my dogs? Will there be any lasting affects?

I doubt it. It sounds like the dogs knew what to do, even if you didn't.

When working with a prey object you can also give a bite command for the prey object. The dog will know the difference.

Whew, that was close.......

Goodogu, while we're at it PLEASE advise your "trainer-friend" to quit doing civil work with his own dogs--and to get on the horn and set straight anyone else he might have given this crazy advice to.

"I'm your enemy--don't ever trust me!" That's EXACTLY what this guy is telling people to do to their dogs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Pete

This happen yesterday, after getting your responce, I called Dxxxxxx, and he had me re-read his E-mail, since I mis-understood his phone call.

He stated that since I was going to miss, the monthly session. That I could do some prey work with them, (here where I go it wrong) and we can wait(work, I took it) on the civil agitaion...

Anyway I learned something here and this week end, he will come by my house and work them for me $60 @hour, he started to charge me $70 for trying to help him.

So I will see if any harm was done, except for them seeing me as the enemy for a second.

My trainer told me that's how you learn through making mistake, but advised that you have process the information correctly to get the right results. He also asked me not to tell anyone that I know him. Ok, I'm a wearing the dunce cap.
Its not the first time in my life.

Trying to console me, he said that if he had a nickle for everytime he done something stupid in dog training, or if he could have a nickle for every stitch he has for making a mistake in this trade he be rich.

I'm a apprentice (novice), at best. One of you guys say, or (if I think that you said do it). I'll do it.

Something that is obvious to you experts, is not that plain to me. It didn't strike me odd that I shouldn't do civil work with my dogs, until I heard from you guys and then was made to re-called the reason this is done. Its not just to make sure they are not locked in prey. It is to help bring out the dogs defensive drive, without the prey item, he's after the man now (its sound real stupid now)Thanks to you all.

A special Thanks to Richard, you gotta like the way he calls ya stupid, alway with Logic and tact.

At least theres no bite marks, I'll fill you in Monday, on the bite session.