As some of you know, I screwed up trying to do more then I know how to do. Or because I didn't use logic in my training, doing it just because can cause problems.

Here are the results of this short term error.

The 3 yr. GSD male is nippy now, when he is released from work to play, or is being sent back into the secured fenced area he will jump up and nip at my shirt, sometimes. I'll shout "No and raise my finger", and he's goes to a down with his head bewteen his feet with a confused look. When he is sent into the his secured area, he is back to his old self. A bundle of energy.

The 2.5 yr Rottie/Pit female when we run in the park will now rolling block me sometimes, tackles me circle back and start licking my face and arms. This is an action that was stopped and now it has reoccurred. This is not a real bad thing, but I want it to happen on command and to someone else.

The 1.5 GSD female seems to have no ill effect, she still does decent bite work on the helper, with no aggression or surprise attacks on me.

They all did well, in scheduled bite work no better or no worse then before. But I do have these two new (self made)problems.

How do I stop this new urge to nip at the chest area (especially a loose shirt that flops in the wind) of my shirts? I've felt teeth but no blood.

Any suggestions on stopping the nipping and the sometime rolling block, surprise dump? I enjoy jogging with my dogs. One on one, and sometime all together.

Since it was my fault I don't want to use complusion, to break this.

I've been advised not to do any bite work with them, unless I have a trainer present. Weather its prey work or anything that will result in contact (teeth and padding).

It was mention that while them walking on lead (one at a time), work on their alert command, give the command to watchem. Look for them to perkup and praise them when their ears perkup and they start looking around for someone to watch. I'm asking is this ok? This is what I really wanted to do in the first place, work on their commands. Any pluses or minuses, here???

I've read your comments from the previous, article and will start re-training, thinking about what I'm doing, Listening not hearing, re-reading my notes and reviewing my tapes (it was more then you that eat my a**).

I mean I can't do anything now anyway but review. Before I do anything else (thinking I'm helping in their protection training) I'd like to cross reference you guys, if you don't mind. Hind sight. :rolleyes:

With the shirt bitting try and make a loud yelp sound like a dog would make, say if you stepped on his tail. When he grabs your shirt, yelp. This might work. Make it loud enough so that he thinks he hurt you, then just carry on with what you were doing.

If this has no effect on him then light complusion maybe in order. But I would give it a shot. I have had this problem and it has worked. Let me know.

Good answer Mike, I too used the yelp, he looked real confused the first few times but stopped grabbing my arm and nawing on it like a bone when "He" was ready to play. Worked good!

Thanks Mike and Lonnie,

I'll give that a shot, maybe he will be able to put it together, that I don't like this behavior and stop. By yelping, hummm. I'll try it.

What about the rolling block bitch? Should I stop jogging with her? Or direct this action elsewhere? Suggestions?

The female 1.5 GSD bite is not full, its only with the front part of her mouth. Should I take her back to the tug, this has been a occassional problem with her. She seems to like, running the decoy away and taking her prey. When we let have the tug, she will carry it, but lay it down when she gets, say under a shade tree. Until you walk toward her. Even then the "out" will get you the tug.

Just a thought here, but why not pick ONE dog to work in protection for a while instead of constantly learning the hard way with three... the dogs will thank you later.

I just got this mental image of the rolling block, and can't help but chuckle. Too funny! Sorry I'm no help! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Even funnier is the mental image I have of you trying to run with three dogs attacking you in their various ways..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I know, it's probably not funny to you. Sorry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I agree, pick one dog. If you thought civil aggitation with your own dog was ok, there is a serious problem with how you learned to train dogs. I'm as green as they come and one of the first things I learned was "Never aggitate/decoy/train defense/fight with your own dog!" Big bold letters "Prey development only"
No offense intended to you friend, I'm not just being an ass, but dam, you really need to consider carefully what you are doing with your dogs. I have enough trouble with my one dog, and he's not even a super drive working dog, there is no way in hell I could train three.

If you missed my point in all that, "take a step back friend"

Lonnie
I hear what you are saying, about training three dogs. But these are three good dogs, that have been lead off track by me. Thinking I could do something that others can't do, and found that there is a reason why you shouldn't.

I feel it would be shame to stop, training them right when I can see so much improvement (until I got holier then thou). But we will recover.

I know it would be eaiser to train one dog. But right now I have three that are doing well in Obedenice, informal Agility; jumping, 6' slide stair climbing, 4x4 walking, through tunnel, Protection and Tracking/Air scenting.

A real good trainer could take these dogs, he could make them really something special. But all they have is me, and the trainers that I can afford when I can afford them.

A lot of trainer have told me that I'm doing too much with them. But I have the time and the experts around me like the ones on this board so why not use this knowledge to get the most out of them.

I know if I work one I could get one real good dog, you are right. But then I'd have to go back train the others. And there is a point were, its harder to train a older dog then when they are young.

When I get around full grown dogs, that don't know anything and in 5 minutes you got them sitting, and staying. You open the gate and they would still run away. You see the lost potential.

LSwanson
That is funny. But really when we walk or run on lease together they are side by side, (the male a nose ahead) no playing or jumping around (walking on lease). When they get to go off lease they stay seated until I issue "Go play". After that anythings goes. Then comes rolling block (surprised me the first time), it like a line backer hitting you. It doesn't hurt but it needs redirecting. To put them back on lease, I click the lease clip they sit and wait their turn. So you see their potentials is abound, if I can get the right help and stop exceeding my abilities.

Here's something funny that did happen, since you like jokes. While the Rott/Pitt female was throwing me around on the tug. The GSD male I had just worked him and put him in the separate fence, he jumped the fence (I guess it was still closed, when I put him back and told him to stay, he never got again) and joined in on the bite session on the tug, talk about shocking. But I played along and then put him back. By the way he missed my fingers on purpose, wetting them and move over. Just a hell'va damn dog.

Scary for some, but funny if you know this dog.
And before the whews come, he didn't get out again, even though he could. First time this has happened.

Damn dogs desevere better, but I'm all they got.

You wouldn't believe it but away from you experts we get raving reviews, a good dog team.

In certain settings, I'm one of the big fish (one of the guys with the most promising dogs, everything is relative), until I get in this ocean.

It apparent that I'm not going get anymore help on the rolling block, I fixed it before I'll fix it again. Thanks for the tip on the nipping.

The reason I stated you need to stop and pick one is that it is MUCH harder to retrain a behavior because you have messed it up (which you have) than to do it right the first time...

Why do you need 3 protection trained dogs? You got some serious enemies or what?
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The female 1.5 GSD bite is not full, its only with the front part of her mouth. Should I take her back to the tug, this has been a occassional problem with her. She seems to like, running the decoy away and taking her prey. When we let have the tug, she will carry it, but lay it down when she gets, say under a shade tree. Until you walk toward her. Even then the "out" will get you the tug.
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This is exactly what I am talking about.. the dog either has not been taught to bite full or she is being pushed into defense.

Why is she able to "run off" under a shade tree? You are in control how? No leash? Why not?

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So far as feeling like a big fish in your little pond... refer to my sig...

Instead of re opening posts that you obviously know little to nothing about, why not sit back and read some of the older posts and articles Ed has published here for people to learn from for FREE.

So far as the "training an older dog" excuse... at least you would be doing it right later... oh and older dogs learn faster too:P

Goodogu
You commented about it being harder to train older dogs. If the foundation is there, and you spend a lot of time with your dogs,(you obviously do) Then training older dogs is not hard. I've done numerous things with my dogs(11,9,6), based on the Flinks tapes, and the dogs love it and respond well to it.