This is directed at those of you with a lot of experience with muzzle work with PSDs or PPDs.

Can anyone give me an example of teaching aggression control (i.e. the "Out") while in muzzle? Is this a worthwhile training goal?

Control is control - when using the muzzle the dog should be expected to ehibit the B&H and Out in the same fashion it does while not in muzzle. The fact is this adds another deminsion of control to the dog because it just adds another element of distraction that it learns to work under.

In fact I see nothing run to having a sport dog running the blind and doing a B&H in muzzle.

I can say that letting a dog work in muzzle, the finished product should be able to perform the same it would with no muzzle.

I work a dog in schutzhund and have him do a B@H in muzzle. I then do an escape and so fourth from time to time. I require the dog to stop fighting while in muzzle. Really the dog cannot out as he is not holding anything. But the results are great. If a dog can perform in this manner while muzzled, he most likley will perfrom anywhere. I feel that this type of work, is a real test to see if a dog will bite for real.

Does working in a muzzle build more drive and aggression? In my mind(uneducated),not getting a bite would be very frustrating for the dog, so I would think control in a muzzle would add a lot to control without it.

Michael,

I noticed you said the dog can't out in a muzzle because the dog isn't biting anything. Are you using a seperate command for a call off, or not teaching a call off?

Thanks, I quess this is my problem. In the past I have only used the muzzle on finished dogs and only to "test" them. (PP here)

Now, I am training a young dog that isn't "finished" in bite work (bought the dog that way at 18 months old<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> , but I want to incorporate the muzzle work in with my other training. . .now. Should I train control in the muzzle after the dog is finished (outing) in bitework?

Up to this point I have been letting the dog win by standing over the opponent, who has been fought to the ground, and holding the leash as he then slinks away. No penalty for continued fighting. We then chase a few feet, but that ends the session. Dog wins and holds his ground. Bad guy leaves area and doesn't return. He has been a monster up to this point and is now doing send away attacks at distance. (all on short leash now)

Note to Mike, with my last trained dog, he would out in muzzle just like off a bite with no problem. Never had to do any training for this. But, I only rarely used the muzzle. I think it has to do with the way I teach the out. Out means fight is over, not necessarilly only take your mouth off. I teach mainly a drive method type of out, followed by correction phase.

Originally posted by Richard Cannon:
Michael,

I noticed you said the dog can't out in a muzzle because the dog isn't biting anything. Are you using a seperate command for a call off, or not teaching a call off? When you say call off are you relating to the dog coming back to me? I just want to be clear so I don't write a whole thing about nothing.LOL

 Quote:

Originally posted by VanCamp:

Note to Mike, with my last trained dog, he would out in muzzle just like off a bite with no problem. Never had to do any training for this. But, I only rarely used the muzzle. I think it has to do with the way I teach the out. Out means fight is over, not necessarilly only take your mouth off. I teach mainly a drive method type of out, followed by correction phase.

Could you explain what you mean by "drive method type out" I am not sure that I am sure what you are describing

Michael,

The dog is sent and called "out" prior to making the bite, return or not. I use out and then either call a watch or return, different than a dog on a bite that drops off to a watch or out and return. I use watch to come off the bite to a watch. I also use watch to go out and not make a bite (Bark and Hold).