Pursuant to the Kefir thread....

My 14 month old, 62 lb pup has had diarrhea for two weeks. And gas. I haven't changed his diet, though the store ran out of 200IU vitamin e pills so i bought 400IU pills this time and try and only squeeze half out. He eats Orijen (grain free) chicken, salmon, turkey, whitefish and egg kibble and gets Salmon oil and vitamin E on top.

He is an avid poo eater and also eats a lot of other things. So at first I didn't think anything of it but when it got to the 7-day mark I took a poo sample to the vet.

They said tests were negative, though she saw "a lot of yeast" which the tech has never seen in dog poop before, so it was probably from the ground/leaves that contaminated the sample?

That was on Friday and he's had 1 or 2 normal poos but we are back to very loose, very smelly, pudding poops. He had one squirty diarrhea last week. I've been giving him about 2 tablespoons of kefir per meal (he eats twice a day) for 2 days now.

Vet recommended probiotics and/or digestive enzymes. She had never heard of kefir but said I could probably use that, but I have to give it to him for 30 days to really help.

Questions
1. How much kefir should I be feeding my 62 lb dog?
2. When should I expect to see his diarrhea clear up if the kefir is indeed helping?
3. Anything else I can do to help him? Pumpkin doesn't seem to help, and I've given him up to 1/2 cup at a time.

Thanks...

I'd like to back up if you haven't yet to an 18-hour fast.

I would also like to recheck for giardia, which is very easy to miss. This overview doesn't matter that it's on a specific breed site:

http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/beaglehealth_giardiasis.htm

Also see
http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0119.htm

So recap: I would probably fast the dog first, then do half-rations of soupy white rice and a little skinless white chicken and some plain live-culture no-sugar (not vanilla) yogurt (or kefir). I'd give a few tablespoons at a time, every meal.

If I did not see improvement with this protocol, I would discuss giardia, one of the symptoms of which is gas, with the vet.

JMO.

Please let us know.

e.t.a. Mike is 100% right about two weeks being too long.
This is why I'm advocating more testing.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/28/2008 03:53 PM)
Edit reason: eta

He is not going to be happy about being fasted. Can I feed him a small amount of rice or pumpkin while the other dogs get their food, or can he only have water?

I'll check what the bacteria in the kefir is. He loves his Kefir so that isn't a problem. I guess I'll increase the amount a little.

 Quote: Angela Burrell

He is not going to be happy about being fasted. Can I feed him a small amount of rice or pumpkin while the other dogs get their food, or can he only have water? ...

I guess so. I do understand food drive. Your goal with the fasting is to calm down an inflamed gut, which is the case no matter what triggered it.

The white rice should be very overcooked, soupy, like porridge, so at least it can look like a dish of food (although it will be largely water). (Rice water has the binding property of rice, BTW.)

ETA:
BTW, if I have to fast a foody dog, I take him away and do nice things with him while the others eat. He gets a private walk, for example, or belly rub if he's a belly-rub dog. He's not sadly watching the others eat.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/28/2008 04:53 PM)
Edit reason: ETA

Gaaa!

THe little $#!^ found (and ate) a poop I missed just now during our playtime.

Should I fast him on an empty stomach that has poop in it, or feed him his regular meal and fast him tomorrow?

Grrr... poops are sooo hard to find in the fall!

There is just the one poop-eater? I'd probably have him on a lead outdoors (always) until he has a reliable "drop it" or "leave it." I never could make much headway with a confirmed poop-eater without doing that. Then I mark and reward with very excellent food rewards. A week or two of concerted effort can really help to break the habit.

Do you have or can you make the rice gruel? Can you give him that tonight?

 Quote: mike armstrong

I don't have any experience with digestive enzymes, but they're not really the same thing as probiotics.

Yes/No. They are different things, but they are both output products of "fermentation product" of probiotic strains. Every probiotic product also has enzymes in it. There are plant based enzymes without the bacteria, but most of them are also "fermentation product", meaning that there is also probiotic bacteria in them (although less likely to be live if the manufacturer is not making such claims.)

Connie, LOL. This dog has been eating poo since he was old enough to walk. And he's not just a regular poop eater, for him it's almost desperation. Like an addict or something, heh. I've had him on leash until he was about 12 months old, tried switching foods, corrections, picking up regularly, those anti-coprophagia pills (2 different brands) and he STILL finds them (and his swallowing time is faster than my reaction time). He can be on a four foot leash with me directly watching him, and he is so good, he can look like he is just casually sniffing grass - and wham! he has swallowed a whole poop in one gulp that had been hidden under a leaf.

His leave it is good, he will even spit out whatever he has in his mouth if I catch him quickly enough. Now when he eats poop, playtime is over and he goes directly to his crate. It is down two about 2 times a week now which is a huge improvement. I think it is going to be a lifetime battle with this dog.

Anyway I am hijacking my own thread so...

I'll fast him, then feed only overcooked rice, boiled white chicken and the kefir... and if he still has problems... get a giardia test. Right?

 Quote: denise skidmore

 Quote: mike armstrong

I don't have any experience with digestive enzymes, but they're not really the same thing as probiotics.

Yes/No. They are different things. . .they are both output products of "fermentation product" of probiotic strains. Every probiotic product also has enzymes in it. . . There are plant based enzymes without the bacteria. . .there is also probiotic bacteria in them although less likely to be live . . .

What ?