I have a two year old male cattle dog (neutered) that we rescued from a shelter last December. He has made great progress in obedience training and socialization. I have used an e-collar for the last 10 months and recently purchased and watched Ed's remote collar training dvd. My dog is fine with people but is aggressive with some other dogs, mostly non-neuterd males. The dvd suggests using a VERY strong correction/nick whenever my dog even looks at another dog. Is there any alternative to training him to avoid ALL other dogs? Are there signs of early aggression I can look for, and correct, before a physical altercation begins. I always approach new dogs on lead and am aware that male cattle dogs are dominant beasts. Again, my dog is fine with people and 90% of the dogs he meets. Can I give STRONG corrections with the e-collar once the growling and lunging has begun? What other pre-aggression signs should I look for and correct?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Tom Agosti

i think you will have to learn your dog's signals.

even if he is fine with 90% of the dog he meets, if physical altercations have occured (am i reading that right), i would stop allowing him to meet other dogs.

when i adopted luc, he had fear aggression issues, but would only growl etc when cornered (i spent the first few weeks taking him to the dog park every day in the mistaken belief this would help him to learn he didn't need to be scared of other dogs). what helped him was becoming the only one who dealt with dogs that approached us. i handled all incoming dogs, did not allow him to interact with them at all, and physically removed any aggressively approaching dogs. as a result, he learned to be become calm and generally relaxed around strange dogs. i still don't allow them to approach him, and that is what he is happy with.

teagan is dog aggressive, and gives very little overt warning. i had to learn to read her. unlike your dog, she does not vocalize or growl.

things i would suggest watching:
-your dog's eyes (if you can see them) - is he staring at another dog? watching one in particular?
-ear position (forward, back, flattened)
-body position (forward, back)
-tail (held down, held back/up)
-stiffening of the body/legs
-your dog's muzzle (is he baring his teeth? wrinkingly the muzzle?)
-hackles - does your dog raise his hackles (to appear larger)?

and i'm sure there will be other suggestions from the really experienced dog folk on here as well....

Hi Tom,

I would step back a bit - does your dog understand what the correction is for? In other words, does he understand beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is to look at you when he sees another dog,etc? If not, than correcting him with the e-collar will be ineffective at this point on the issue (in my opinion at least).

When does he show aggression? What is the purpose of having him greet these other dogs? FWIW, I have had ACDs for well over a decade and for the most part my males interact only with my other dogs. They can be a$$holes with other dogs.

I would not even let it get to the growling and lunging point, I would work at a distance and reward for appropriate behavior. Slowly work closer in to the other dogs, the minute he goes on alert and will not look at you and ignore the other dog I would give him a pop along with a verbal correction and turn around and walk away.

ACDs have an incrediably high pain tolerance so I have found that e-collars, while useful, are not always the most effective tool. My intact male, at 18 months, was introduced to the e-collar. My collar has a digital read out of levels from 1-127. My male did not respond the first time until 125.... What it usually boils down to with ACDs getting them to understand and respect your position as the alpha in the relationship.

As to warning signals, each dog is different. You need to be hyper-sensitive and observe your dog closely. My one male goes still and silently makes an "O" with his lips and exhales. My bitch goes still and stares intently. My intact male goes en pointe before going into defensive barking, etc.

I am sure others here on the list who are more experienced with e-collars can give better advice. Where are you located? Perhaps someone will have nearby trainer referrals.

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I try to correct with the e-collar at the first sign of aggressive behavior.(body stiffening or staring) There are some dogs that he has gotten into it with before and I agree these dogs need to be totally avoided. Often we will meet a group of dogs that he knows and is OK with, except for that new(to us) non-neutered male. My thought is that if I can correct him with a BIG e-collar nick during the time he is in the pre-aggressive stage(stiffening and staring) he will learn the behavior is not acceptable. Any trainer ideas for the Portland, Oregon\Vancouver, Washington areas.
Tom Agosti

why do you want him interacting with other dogs?

It seems inevitable that although I will do my best to see other dogs coming, there will be a time when one will magically appear from nowhere. I swim and run the dog off leash at a local river. Yes, he is very good at recall and sit and stay. We continue to work on all of the above with distractions. There is no bigger distraction than a non-neutered male dog. My hope is to continue to work on his recall, and at the same time correct his behavior to be aggressive.
Tom Agosti

Tom:

Recently my cattle dog was aggressive toward my mother's new male rescue (actually it was mutual between the two dogs). I corrected using ecollar at the moment of his decision to engage (ie form intention to engage and then pull on lead from a distance).

I started low but needed to go for a high correction.

He got the point that he doesn't have interactions with this neighbouring dog (large acreage). He's decided it isn't worth it.

When he was younger I had him in dog daycare once a week for a while. He usually found a female or two to play with, but didn't gain much pleasure from the other dog-dog interactions.

My cattle dog views engagements with other males as dominance contests with aggression or tension the usual outcome. I have only seen him play with females. He lived with a 90 lb. GSD for a while and dominated it, but also was not comfortable with that dog sometimes, for example side by side on lead: my cattle dog likes his space with other male dogs.

So, I don't try too hard to give him this experience.

I do find that treks with friends and their neutral dogs, in neutral territory, is a fairly low stress, low aggression strategy for dogs to meet. My experience is two dogs each off territory are a lower risk for a fight. Plus all the exercise and exploration is a happy alternative to conflict.

when in doubt keep the dogs on lines, either in hand or dragging.

hope this helps. AM

Thanks Andrew that does help. My dog's behavior seems very similar to what you have experienced with your ACD. He does well with most all females and is usually so focused on his retrieve toy that he could care less about other dogs. There are very few dogs that he will play with but he does OK just hanging out with other dogs. This is my second ACD, the first one made it to 12 years of age. This guy is much different than the first..more dominant, a harder dog...possibly from working stock.
I have tried alpha rolls and leash corrections after the confrontations have been broken up. So now I'm trying to stop the pre-fight behavior with the e collar. Hopefully, I'll get better at reading my dog.

Obedience is the beginning. Once the dog has "locked" eyes with the other dog means you missed the timely correction. Dog aggression is so subjective without seeing it, what you see as aggression, others may see as something else. Also, i wouldn't get to hung up in the breed of dog, it's more likely a leadership/training issue, alpha rolls and that kind of training is really counter productive,

I would just like to point out as well, that is is really not fair for the person whose dog is getting attacked by your dog, in a public place. Remember, you are responsible for managing your dog's and ensuring other's right to use the public space in peace. Until you get this issue resolved, please keep him on a leash or long line. (I once had a 40-foot line which was enough for swimming and retrieve).