Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster. I have a male all black 4.5 month old GSD puppy named Panzer. I have the 8weeks, Basic Dog Obedience DVDS, and all the E-articles (i've actually had them all long before I ever got the puppy). I also have Panzer enrolled in Puppy obedience class. Panzer has mastered most of the basic commands (sit/down/stay/touch/focus/heel)...however in the class we get homework to do, and I'm having a heck of a time with two commands.

1st: The Stand command. This was in our week 1 homework, but I've been unable to get him to stand without me having to hold him there...and even then he's constantly knawing on my right arm, or just trying anything to get out of the hold. I start with him in heel position, sitting beside me, with me kneeling beside him. I say "Panzer stand", and place my right thumb through his collar (thumb and fingers pointing to the floor) and use upward pressure from the left hand on his belly. I've been trying it everyday since week 1(we are in week 3 now), and he still is not able to hold a stand for more than 2-3 seconds before the knawing and wrestling occur. *NOTE* I did try the method employed in Ed's DVD, but that was even worse, he was so freaked out at the 2nd leash wrapped around his belly that he spent the entire episode trying to bite the other leash, and getting himself all wrapped up in both leashes.

The Down/Sit Stay: In our homework since week2, we've had a sit/down stay, starting at 5 mins and now up to 30 mins. Well..this is an excercise in patience I must say. I tried it the first night, (week 2), and I had to put him back into the sit at least 100 times, and each time he was barking and knawing on my hands as I put him into the sit. After about 50 times of putting him back into the sit, he would stop trying to get up, but sit there and bark like crazy. This whole excercise repeated for the Down stay as well. We're supposed to be up to a 30 min down stay, and a 10 min Sit stay...Panzer will sit on command, but once he realizes that I want him to stay there for a little while..that's when the barking and he gets up...I dont say a word, but put him back into the sit/down...repeat about 100 times per every 5-6 minutes.

He gets two 1.5 mile walks a day, and plenty of play time with me. I say play time, but it's usually fun activities designed to further his training. ie. Playing Catch...Hold ball..make him sit...stay...throw ball...wait 10 secs then release him "OK" to get ball....then repeat. That's kinda what playtime is like. And no not just catch.

Other than those two things, he's mastered every other command very easily. He's really a great puppy, and I'm amazed at how intelligent he is. Any advice

To me, at 4 ½ months, all of this is a bit much. He is a baby… I would want to back off on my expectations if he were mine. But to better answer your question, HOW are you training, markers or…?

PS Welcome to the board!!! I would love to see pictures!!!

Stand: If he can hold it 2-3 seconds before gnawing on you, then click and treat after 1 second, while he is successful. He is still young and needs time for his light bulb to go on. He has no idea what you want. So do everything you have done, get him to stand, then reward almost instantly. You're just going too fast!

Down/stay: a 30 minute down stay is pretty excessive for a toddler. I started with 2 minutes when my dog was I think 6 or 7 months old, but that's just me... This is obviously an obedience class geared toward adult dogs. I am not surprised you are getting the results you are. Again, going to fast for such a young dog... JMO! You are trying to teach a 4-year-old calculus. Start with arithmetic.

What are your goals for this dog? Pet? Sport? Working?

Edit: Learning needs to be fun for a baby. Sounds like you are not having any fun! Get the Marker Training DVD ASAP.

Sorry..yes I do marker training, but not with a clicker. I use the "GOOD" as the marker. I've been using "GOOD" since 8 weeks, and it's taken me through touch/sit/down/stay/focus/heel...just not stand.

And yeah it's not fun. That's why I havent really pushed him as hard as I could with the stand/down stay...and have kinda accepted that we just wont be able to complete that part of the homework.

Every other command we've taught him, it's been fun for him, and fun for us...except for these two.

Here's the most recent picture of panzer, just before bedtime.

 Quote: JessicaKromer

To me, at 4 ½ months, all of this is a bit much. He is a baby… I would want to back off on my expectations if he were mine.

I was just going to say the same thing. A 30 minute down and a 10 minute sit for a 4 month old pup? How is this a puppy class? Not saying it can't be done...I just don't really see the point. How long has the dog known the command(s) before you started adding in duration?

I'd like to know how you're training also, but I will say that if you're having to get up 100 times to put the dog back in position then it seems to me that you are going too fast. Build on success and don't move on until you've mastered the lower level.

Welcome to the board, by the way!

EDITED: oops..others beat me to it!

There is a way to teach stand with a marker-I don't remember all of it exactly but the concept is you use the treat and put in in front of their nose (in a sit) and kinda push it into them and move towards them at the same time, it should make them kick their back legs out when they do this mark and treat - I also used my foot to gently push up on their flank to help them get into the stand until they got the hang of it. I know some people who think teaching the stand this way makes the stand more solid since your not teaching them to move forward to a stand but teaching to kick out with the back legs- JMO - and if your truly training with markers and no compulsion its gonna take awhile but its better results in the end. If your puppy is breaking all those stays your moving too fast-you need to start over and just mark for small increments of time and maybe start right in front of him for now-I know its tempting when there doing so good to try to push for him to get everything right in the class(been there) but he's a baby and its best to take your time. Have fun...

Any command we've taught him, we've used the lure(treat) method to get the action we want, repeat repeat repeat until he's offering the action..then we add the command. He's known sit and down since around 8 weeks...he really picked up both within a day..

I use the sit/down a ton every single day. So I'm 100% sure he knows what Sit and Down mean. The stay however he does know..just not for 10 minutes. Our stay excercises started short, ie 5-10 secs. Now we're up to me walking about 20' away, pausing for around 30-45 seconds, then returning to release (OK)...I've mixed in distractions as well (ball on the floor, treat in front of him, me doing crazy motions..etc) and he's mastered that pretty well.

The only difference is one is while he's leashed and I'm stading up...the one from the homework is me sitting either beside him(week 2) or across the room(week 3)
This down/sit stay was from our homework, and their methods are straight from our homework sheet...and I'm actually glad you guys are responding this way...cause that's pretty much exactly how I was thinking

Hey Ben, if it's not fun I'd stop for a while. Take a break and toss a ball for a month.

That's alot of OB and commands for a puppy that age, especially the long stay.

Be happy with his progress and reinforce. I agree with Steve, take a break. I wouldn't teach new commands anytime soon. Training should be fun and not a chore. When it comes to that point, I always step back,re-evalute my training program and take a break.