Hello,
My name is Bryant Brown and I am a new member. I have a question concerning using a crate for my 2 new GSD puppies. I have 1 male and 1 female coming next month from 2 seperate breeders. Both of the puppies will be 8 weeks old when I get them and they are just a couple of days apart in age.

My question is:
Would I be better with both puppies in one cage/crate while they are young,
to help with seperation and socialization or would I be better with each puppy in their own cage. I am planning on the puppies growing up together and pretty much spending their whole lives together with my Son and myself whether it is in our home, in the truck and/or tractor or just playing on our farm together. I do have plans of breeding them in a couple of years so I was hoping by putting them in the same cage it would start them out bonding with each other from the start. I was also thinking since it is 1 male and 1 female maybe they will get along without too many major conflicts betweem them. Please give me your advice/opions on this topic.
Thanks much,
Bryant

NOOOO! Keep them seperated. If you keep them together 24 - 7 you will have all sorts of trouble.
More than likely they will become very doggy, ie will form their own pack and exclude you.
You want both dogs to look to you for everything not each other.
You need to give them seperate play times with you and seperate training time. Sure let them play together but make sure it is supervised. Eventually you want your dogs to primarily look to you individually and to each other secondary.
Theres no reason why they wont always get along with each other - but then there are also no guarentees.

Bryant - you need the dvd I did titled Your Puppy 8 weeks to 8 months http://leerburg.com/120.htm - you may also want to get Basic Dog Obedience http://leerburg.com/302.htm They will both help you

Ed

Hi Tim,
Thanks for your advice on this. I was think for the first few weeks away from there mothers and litter mates it might help them if they were allowed to sleep in the same cage. I was also thinking it might help to hold down on the seperation barking which they usually go through for the first few nights. But, after reading your post I can see where it might cause some unwanted (added) problems to the situation.

Thanks again for the advice,
Bryant

Hi Ed,
Actually I just hung up the phone from placing my order with Stephanie of the DVD Basic Dog Obedience http://leerburg.com/302.htm. I wasn't sure if I need both because the description of the Basic Obedience seemed to cover everything but if you think I need both I will get the other DVD ordered soon. There is a police officer (K9 unit) here where I live who swears by your books and videos. That is how I heard about your website and I am sure glad I did because I have almost a month to study some of your work before the puppies arrive. It seems this forum will also be a great asset.

Thanks again,
Bryant

You need to tell one breeder that you are NOT getting a puppy. A rank newbie will have enough trouble with one dog. Two will be near impossible.

You will not be able to breed them either. Chances are that one will have some sort of genetic problem that will make it unsuitable. Even if they both grow up well, you title them, and everything, the chances that they will complement each other is virtually nothing. Get a GSD, enjoy it, title it, and then if you like the process CONSIDER getting a female to breed. Most likely the breeders the dogs are coming from are upscale puppy mills, because I do not know of any reputable breeder that would sell a puppy to someone with another puppy, much less for breeding. Please PM me the names of the breeders, because I have a good idea who they are and I want to save you from being talked into a mistake by them.

I can't being to tell you how big of a mistake you are making. I used to work for a vet and saw way too much of this buying a breeding pair crap.

I totally agree with Laura.
Go to the Raising Multiple Dogs in the same home section of the forum. There is a discussion that when on about it that is 4 or 5 discussions down.

You may be intellectually capable of handling both dogs and you might have enough time to do so - but there is a synergistic effect when having two dogs. Take the its not just the work of one dog x 2 - there is addional work in keeping them seperate etc...

If you're asking these sorts of questions your probably not ready to start a breeding program yet. Thats ok - you might get there someday but I wouldn't plan on it right off the bat!

Don't feel bad about making mistakes. You've done a good thing by commiting to investing in your knowledge in the right way. Coming to this board is a good thing - just be warned. People are very frank sometimes. The reality is there is a lot of malevolence that ends up impacts the population of dogs in the country. Be it out of ignorance or generally disrespect for animals in general it can be quite discouraging to witness this firsthand.

So.. get one dog.. ask lots of questions and invest as much of yourself as you can in being the best parent to a dog!

To those whom have replied I appreciate your comments.

To Lauren,
These are not the first dogs I have had nor the first I have trained. I appreciate what you are saying but I have to disagree with your comment about it being "near impossible" to train 2 dogs at the same time. Although I will agree it will require each to have their own individual time periods for being trained seperately. I will also agree it will be MUCH more challenging to raise and train 2 dogs at the same time and I am willing to make this committment.
As for your comments about the breeding capabilities and genetic make-up of these puppies which I have purchased, I am really confused as to how you can predict this with the information which I have provided.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Lauren Woods:
You will not be able to breed them either. Chances are that one will have some sort of genetic problem that will make it unsuitable. Even if they both grow up well, you title them, and everything, the chances that they will complement each other is virtually nothing.

As for your comments about the breeders where I purchased the puppies being "Upscale Puppy Mills" is not quiet fair to them as neither of the breeders knew I had the other puppy coming nor did either of them try to pursuade me in any way to make the purchase. They provided me with the information which I requested about the puppies available and the pedigrees and I made the decision to purchase the two puppies at the same time.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Lauren Woods:
Most likely the breeders the dogs are coming from are upscale puppy mills, because I do not know of any reputable breeder that would sell a puppy to someone with another puppy, much less for breeding. Please PM me the names of the breeders, because I have a good idea who they are and I want to save you from being talked into a mistake by them.

I can't being to tell you how big of a mistake you are making. I used to work for a vet and saw way too much of this buying a breeding pair crap.

Again, I do appreciate your advice and concerns but I have to respectfully disagree with a large part of what you have said.

To Chad,
I appreciate your reply and I feel I have already addressed it in my above remarks.

To Chris,
I appreciate your reply as well and yes, I believe I am intellectually capable of raising and training the two dogs but I feel it will be more about my committment to training them using the correct procedures than it about my intellectual abilities. Also, I agree I am not ready to start my breeding program at this time. If you will go back and read my original post again you will notice I said I am planning on breeding them in a couple of years and never once mentioned starting a breeding program at the present time. I plan on starting my breeding program only after my foundation dogs have been OFA certified which will be somewhere around 28 months from now. As far as making mistakes goes, I don't feel I have made any at this point and I plan on doing the neccessary research and devoting the time to hopefully avoid as many mistakes as possible in the future. As far as people being "frank" in their comments, I don't have a problem with that either as long as their intentions are good, they know what they are talking about and they can handle the same frankness in return. As far as the malevolence which you speak of, I couldn't agree with you more and I will assume you are not insinuating I am contributing to this malevolence because I am planning on properly raising and training 2 dogs at the same time.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Benskey:
You may be intellectually capable of handling both dogs and you might have enough time to do so - but there is a synergistic effect when having two dogs. Take the its not just the work of one dog x 2 - there is addional work in keeping them seperate etc...

If you're asking these sorts of questions your probably not ready to start a breeding program yet. Thats ok - you might get there someday but I wouldn't plan on it right off the bat!

Don't feel bad about making mistakes. You've done a good thing by commiting to investing in your knowledge in the right way. Coming to this board is a good thing - just be warned. People are very frank sometimes. The reality is there is a lot of malevolence that ends up impacts the population of dogs in the country. Be it out of ignorance or generally disrespect for animals in general it can be quite discouraging to witness this firsthand.

So.. get one dog.. ask lots of questions and invest as much of yourself as you can in being the best parent to a dog!

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and I feel maybe I should have possibly made it a little more clear in my opening question what my intentions are. I was really just wanting to know if it would be good idea to allow the 2 puppies to stay in the same crate for a short period of time (the first few weeks) to help get them through the seperation anxiety period after first being seperated from their mother and litter mates. From what I can gather it is recommended to just go ahead and put them in their own crate from the very beginning. This will not be a problem since I already have both crates because I had already planned on them being in their own crate after the initial shock of being taken away from their mother and litter mates.

Thanks Again,
Bryant

 Quote:

You need to tell one breeder that you are NOT getting a puppy. A rank newbie will have enough trouble with one dog. Two will be near impossible.

If you want two puppies then get them. No body has the right to tell you what to do based on their own uniformed opinions. Personally i couldnt see where you had put that you were a "rank newbie", but then i didnt make any assumptions based on little information.
Get your pups enjoy them. Hope it works out for you.