Sorry if this is in the wrong place.

My friend has a Beauceron - very big 15 month old. He's practically uncontrollable on the lead. I leant her my prong collar and he's doing great on it - so that's progress.

In the show ring she is not allowed to use one. A slip collar does not give enough control. Any recomendations on an alternative?

Put an e-collar on the dog, using low stim levels, teach the dog to stop leading her around?

dont know about show rings, but they would not allow e collars i believe.
i suggest prong training, until dog improves, put on regalar/ show collar after - use voice commands.

trained with and still use prong on my "hard" dutch shepherd, sometimes i use flat collar for short walks. firm voice commands do the trick.
it takes time and effort, there's no quick fixes.
dogs that are uncontrolleable in the show ring are in my opinion a poor representation of the breed.

i dont care for shows my self, but the best of luck to the ones that do.

I think that would be the best idea too but she has only gotten used to the concept of a prong. E-collars are also in the process of being banned over here, it's hard to find experienced people to help.

I can get him to walk nicely for me. I often joke it's a mixture of breaking a horse and taming a lion. He's usually up on hind legs and will bite the lead if you try to pull him down. He will bark and bite if you correct him too hard. She is starting to correct that behaviour now (bit late) but she just wanted something to help in the show ring for the time being.

I agree dogs in the ring should be well behaved. Being one of only about 15 dog of that breed being shown in the whole country he has so little competition he tends to do well despite that.

bite and bark if you correct him?..... needs max correction possible.

be calm and remain in charge , since the dog is behaved on the prong keep working with that for now and hold off on the showing for the time being.

i know what you mean that it is hard finding good people to help.

i am fortunate enough that i train at an excellent facility.

best of luck

Food!
Has she tried anything other than compulsion?

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

 Quote: randy allen

Has she tried anything other than compulsion?

My question too.

I would need to know what methods she has used to train this dog for the ring. It's a little different than standard obedience training routines.

Often people when they are starting out for the ring do way too much by force and don't spend enough time moving the dog along at a rate where the dog can enjoy the show process. I personally start puppies with a styrofome ball on a dowel along with a clicker. Every time they touch the ball with their nose they get a yes!, click, and treat. Using the ball on a stick method you can teach heeling, stacking, the stand and stay, and as a helper for examinations. It has great potential for teaching the correct gating and ring patterns as well for dogs.

Remember it's always harder to correct a dog into doing what you want rather than show it what you wanted to begin with.

He will walk nicely off leash with treats and she uses treats for control work - ignoring his bad behaviour and staying calm seems to work far better in those circumstances.
He does stand very nicely.

But when on lead he just wants to go and see other dogs etc. Totally ignoring toys / treats. If the lead goes tight or he is corrected that is when he will walk on two legs, jump about etc. If you correct then he will bite - it doesn't hurt or mark but I would still class it as a bite. His claws do damage when he jumps on you.

When he has the prong on he is much calmer - even when the lead is clipped on his normal collar. Walking him on the prong he will look at the handler and won't prat around, so he doesn't get wound up and is more open to learning etc.

 Quote:

When he has the prong on he is much calmer - even when the lead is clipped on his normal collar. Walking him on the prong he will look at the handler and won't prat around, so he doesn't get wound up and is more open to learning etc.

I have a somewhat similar question. I've got a 1.5 yr old lab-mix that is being obedience trained and stuff, but is basically a pet/companion dog and not a competition dog (though we might end up competing agility someday).

I recently got him an e-collar and am just beginning the groundwork to desensitize him to wearing it so that he doesn't think he only has to listen when he has the collar on. The thing is, he's excellent on his prong. I basically never have to correct him when he's on it - he just calms down and behaves perfectly, while on a flat collar, he's decent but can get a little squirrelly at times. In other words, he already thinks he has to listen when on the prong, but not quite as much when it's just the flat collar.

Currently we are in canine good citizen training and we aren't allowed to use the prong in there or on the test, but we can use a limited slip collar, so I have one of those with the chain (this kind: http://furlongspetsupply.com/ruffwear_chain_reaction_dog_collar.aspx) and I am trying to teach him to pay attention when it's on, just like he does with the prong, and phase the prong out. Sometimes I'll put the prong on him but clip the leash on his flat collar instead, and sometimes I'll put on both the prong and the limited slip collar, but clip the leash to the slip collar, and sometimes just the slip collar and the flat collar and no prong.

I guess my question is this: it *is* possible to train them to behave off the prong and slowly phase it out, right?