Competition Heeling Technique
#228355 - 02/19/2009 06:35 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 05-15-2008
Posts: 54
Loc: Virginia
Offline |
|
I bought Ed's Training the Competition Heeling with Tom Rose, in which Tom teaches to reward from the mouth to get the dog to focus on you, then he transitions to rewarding by hand later.
Then while watching one of Ed's free streaming videos, I noticed Cindy working with Rush on heeling with a ball under her arm. The club I belong to all use the ball under the arm technique as well, so I have seen it work.
Then I watched Ivan Balabanov's Clear Communication DVD, where he teaches the dog to look into the handler's eyes, then transitions to the side of the face. He rewards with food or a toy but after the dog is done. This may seem the same as the hiding the ball technique, but according to Ivan, "you end up with something very different than true attention."
So we have 3 similar, but potentially very different methods. I have been attempting to use Balabanov's technique and it is coming along, albeit slowly. So my question to the group is, which technique(s) have you used and had the best results with?
Thanks,
Al
|
Top
|
Re: Competition Heeling Technique
[Re: Al Lewis ]
#228357 - 02/19/2009 06:40 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 06-06-2008
Posts: 5062
Loc: WA, USA
Offline |
|
To add further to the confusion, Bernhard Flinks uses a fourth, but similar method.
Ultimately, they all work.
It depends on a few things- the dog's temperment, what you are using to reward the dog (toy, or food?), your coordination as a handler (can you aim well enough if you spit the treat? do you keep dropping the ball from under your arm?) and personal choice.
If you like the Balabanov method, and it's working for you, great!
|
Top
|
Re: Competition Heeling Technique
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#228418 - 02/20/2009 08:17 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 05-15-2008
Posts: 54
Loc: Virginia
Offline |
|
Is there a link or a reference to Bernhard's technique?
|
Top
|
Re: Competition Heeling Technique
[Re: Al Lewis ]
#231235 - 03/12/2009 08:25 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-13-2009
Posts: 2
Loc: England
Offline |
|
I am a Police Dog Handler in the UK. When I first began training my current dog heeling I used the Bernard Flink's "Building focus and drive" method. This appeared to work quite well, however I stumbled across the Ivan Balabanov video. I was interested in the idea of the dog's attention being on you rather than on your armpit. My question was, the dogs are not stupid, they are used for scent work in my role therefore surely they know when the ball isn't there. My GSD lost interest very quickly when he realised the ball wasn't there in competition.
The I/B method is working however I have found that originally training my dog in the B/F method he is very focused on the ball when he can see it. He does a great impression of an OAP with Alzhiemers whilst stairing at it ( as demonstrated by Bernard and his dog). Clearly it's a case of using what works for your dog.
|
Top
|
Re: Competition Heeling Technique
[Re: Neil Losada ]
#231247 - 03/12/2009 10:01 PM |
Moderator
Reg: 07-14-2001
Posts: 2069
Loc: Wisconsin
Offline |
|
I carry the ball under the arm because I want my dog looking in that area when I ask for heeling. to get full points in competition heeling, if your dog is making eye contact he will be somewhat out of position. My dog would PREFER to look into my eyes and I used to teach it that way but it creates a dog that forges and 'wraps' as their drive level goes up.
I believe that Rush is about 7 months old in that streaming video Al referred to.
If you go to a Michael Ellis seminar, you'll get a wonderful explanation of "sign tracking" and how your reward delivery will influence your dog's ultimate position. I taught my dog to keep his head up while he heeled by delivering the reward exactly over his head. I can now hold the reward in plain site or not have any reward at all, and he will still maintain his heel position with head up.
muscle memory and practice..not necessarily in that order
|
Top
|
Re: Competition Heeling Technique
[Re: Cindy Easton Rhodes ]
#231250 - 03/12/2009 10:14 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-15-2009
Posts: 5090
Loc: Lanexa Virginia
Offline |
|
Cindy... you make it sound soooo easy!!
|
Top
|
Re: Competition Heeling Technique
[Re: Al Lewis ]
#231258 - 03/13/2009 12:50 AM |
Moderator
Reg: 01-25-2003
Posts: 5983
Loc: Idaho
Offline |
|
Al,
Bernhard taught me a manner of heeling for Patrol Dog work that consisted of the dog always lightly touching your left knee during movement while the dog is free to scan the area for adversaries ( obviously if the dog is directly looking into your eyes all the time it's missing what's going on in the immediate vicinity ).
I'm the only member of my SchH club that uses this type of heeling and I think that any of my club members ( like Betty ) could comment on its odd appearance ( but effective for the type of dog that I handle ).
It appears to be a tactically sound concept but could cost you points during the OB portion of a trial ( on the other hand, some judges are starting to ding dog/handler teams where the dog doesn't watch the helper during transport - a potential problem with having the dog always fixated on the handler's face ).
|
Top
|
Re: Competition Heeling Technique
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#231260 - 03/13/2009 02:35 AM |
Moderator
Reg: 06-14-2002
Posts: 7417
Loc: St. Louis Mo
Offline |
|
Will, I had a GSD x Dane that heeled that way on his own. As you say, they know exactly where your at so don't need to keep their eyes on you.
Trouble was, it didn't "lightly touch" me. At 28 inches and 125 lb he would damn near knock my knee out of joint.
I broke it with a spike collar wrapped around my leg. Koehler days! EEK!
A couple of cheap shots from the helper will get a "good" dog's attention when they start paying to much attention to the handler.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
Top
|
Re: Competition Heeling Technique
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#231266 - 03/13/2009 06:10 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 10-26-2006
Posts: 9
Loc:
Offline |
|
hi cindy
not sure about regulations are in america , but in the uk dogs will loose points in competition heeling for wrapping and in fact for any position it is in other than the dog being straight at handlers side, the dogs shoulder should be approx level with and reasonably close to handlers leg at all times, regarding teaching dog to look up towards the eyes this is something that you will see in all major competitions over here , surely if you dog starts to wrap its for handler to not reward this position, with the reward i generally have it in top pocket but sometimes will carry it in my right hand or sometimes tucked into pocket at back of my jacket , for me dog has to learn eye contact and correct position only brings success ( not looking for the ball)
cheers john
|
Top
|
Re: Competition Heeling Technique
[Re: johndoran ]
#231267 - 03/13/2009 06:23 AM |
Moderator
Reg: 07-14-2001
Posts: 2069
Loc: Wisconsin
Offline |
|
Hi John, In US dogs lose points for wrapping around and also for touching the handler (i.e. leaning on the leg)
I've trained MANY heeling dogs and Rush is the first one I've trained exlusively using markers. I don't allow my dog to look for the ball either, but I do drop the reward right over his head, even if I'm holding it in my hand. I also use a tug for heeling. same concept
I've also taught him a variety of words, so if he makes a mistake I can let him know which of his actions he must fix.
In the "old days" the rule in our schutzhund club was "fuss is fuss". I don't buy that any more. the dog's responsibility in heeling is somewhat complex. They need to be looking up, staying in position and not touch you. If you teach your dogs a word for looking up, moving back, moving foward, moving closer, etc... then you can give him information as to WHAT he needs to fix in order to be correct. This makes for a much clearer picture while the dog is learning. If you just say NO,HEEL when he's bumping you or not giving focus, how does he know WHAT you are asking him to fix?
|
Top
|
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.