Walk away or make her face her fears?
#228409 - 02/19/2009 11:34 PM |
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Trixie is our rescue Amstaff. She's approx 3 and we've had her for 10 months. She lives in peace with my other dogs, but she's fear aggressive to other dogs. She doesn't bark and growl, she squeals and squirms.
I went back to obedience classes with her on Sunday. It's a club she hasn't been to before with a lot of dogs, all working in close proximity.
It was pretty full on for her. She did a whole lot of carrying on. I found that I was walking her away whenever she had an episode and I got to thinking afterwards that that’s probably exactly what she wants. She’s afraid = she carrys on = she gets removed from the situation = result for her!
I do the same when I’m walking her. If we’re approaching an excited or aggressive dog I either move well out of the way or cross the road.
Is this completely wrong? Should I make her face her fears and learn to deal with it?
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Re: Walk away or make her face her fears?
[Re: Ruth O'Leary ]
#228425 - 02/20/2009 09:58 AM |
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(( Should I make her face her fears and learn to deal with it? ))
I prefer to work on some desensitizing and maybe counter-conditioning. Are you familiar with this, or would you like specific examples?
As for approaching excited and aggressive dogs, I would never force (or even allow) my dog to get close.
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Re: Walk away or make her face her fears?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#228426 - 02/20/2009 10:01 AM |
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I forgot to add that in a situation where this does happen, I would move calmly and quietly. That is, no babying. But you probably know that.
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Re: Walk away or make her face her fears?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#228445 - 02/20/2009 01:56 PM |
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((I prefer to work on some desensitizing and maybe counter-conditioning. Are you familiar with this, or would you like specific examples?))
Yes please
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Re: Walk away or make her face her fears?
[Re: Ruth O'Leary ]
#228448 - 02/20/2009 02:10 PM |
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OK. If you provide us with her "zone," that will help a lot. For example, how far away do those dogs in the class have to be for her not to react? (I personally don't like group classes, but let's see if it's doable. It may well not be.)
Also, at what point does she react with dogs on the sidewalk?
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Re: Walk away or make her face her fears?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#228452 - 02/20/2009 02:56 PM |
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You are correct that it is not the best thing to do. This is an excerpt from Cesar Millan's second book, where Dr. Alice Clearman explain how exposure works as a technique for dealing with fear
Exposure is all about reinforcement in the brain. Whenever we engage in a habitual behavior in response to something we fear, we reinforce that fear. If we are afraid of spiders and back away from them, we reinforce that fear. Imagine a great fear of spiders. You see one in the bedroom. You run out of the bedroom and get someone else to kill it. Or you spray half a can of pesticide in your room. Or you call a pest control company. I’ve known one person who refused to sleep in her bedroom for three months after seeing a spider there!
The way it works is that they become more and more anxious as they approach the feared object or situation. In the case of spiders, if I’m afraid of them and I have to kill one, I become more and more afraid as I approach it. Maybe I have a shoe in my hand, poised to smash the creature. My heart is pounding, my pulse is racing, I’m almost hyperventilating. I’m terrified! I get closer and closer, sweating bullets. I suddenly decide that I can’t handle it! I turn heel and flee from the room, calling my neighbor and asking her to come over and kill the thing. The moment I run away, how am I feeling? Relieved! My pulse slows and my breathing returns to normal. I wipe my brow with a shaking hand. Whew! That was close!
Look at what I did to my brain. I had increasing anxiety as I drew closer and closer to the spider. Then I decided I couldn’t do it. I fled the scene and I had an enormous sense of relief. That relief – that feeling – was a reward. I rewarded myself for fleeing from the spider. I’ve taught myself, quite literally my brain, that spiders are indeed very dangerous creatures. I know this because of the feeling of relief I had when I left. The result is that I actually increase my fear. I have made myself a little bit more afraid of spiders every time I exit.
I have a foster who is afraid of children. He doesn't get their fast movements, tucks his tail and barks to get away. I bring him in the proximity of children, wait until he calms down then we walk away. We then walk through the children playing a game, step by step. When you show strong leadership to a dog that trusts you, it may take a while but their common sense will kick in and they realize 'hey there's nothing to be afraid of'.
Assuming this barking dog is contained by a fence and there is no way it can harm your dog, de-sensitizing could be walking by, sitting with her back to the barking dog. Waiting until she calms down then move on. Repeat this on the way home. Make sure your attitude is positive and confident that this will work. I always like to ignore barking dogs, and walk by like nothing is going on.
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Re: Walk away or make her face her fears?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#228454 - 02/20/2009 03:08 PM |
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Her critical distance is very small if the other dog is calm. They can approach and sniff and she'll submit. If the dog is in any way excited and on-lead, a couple of meters I guess? The dogs in class were that far away. The class was an hour long. If one got excited she'd react. After the outburst I could put her in a drop and she'd quite happily stay there until the next episode. Off-lead and excited, maybe 10 meters?
I can walk her around the park and pass around 50 on-lead dogs without a reaction. If we approach a dog that's anything other than calm she starts to react when they're about two lead lengths away. At this point, if I'm walking with more than one dog, she will often try and redirect to one the others.
I think her behaviour towards strange dogs in the last week is worse than before going to class last Sunday
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Re: Walk away or make her face her fears?
[Re: Ruth O'Leary ]
#228455 - 02/20/2009 03:12 PM |
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... I think her behaviour towards strange dogs in the last week is worse than before going to class last Sunday
Yes, this is one of the things I don't like about groups of strange dogs.
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Re: Walk away or make her face her fears?
[Re: Ruth O'Leary ]
#228456 - 02/20/2009 03:15 PM |
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Jennifer, reading the excerpt tells me that removing Trixie from the situation that she's so fearful of is rewarding her and increasing her fear. So, in effect, I should stand firm and wait for her to calm down. Yet in your first sentence you agree with Connie that maybe group training isn't a good idea for her. I'm confused! I think I missed your point
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Re: Walk away or make her face her fears?
[Re: Ruth O'Leary ]
#228457 - 02/20/2009 03:15 PM |
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I'd work on basic ob at home instead. JMHO.
I'd start with marker work, on focus.
And personally, I steer clear of strange dogs who are "anything but calm."
So besides the class and the wild strange dogs on walks, is there an instance where she reacts? Also, when this happens, what do you do?
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