Hi,

As part of establishing pack structure with our 5-month-old chowhound puppy, we have started letting her out of the crate to be around (as opposed to being in her crate in another room) and wait for us to finish our meals before we feed her. And, we usually do not have her wait more than 8 mins. I know that 8 mins is long for a puppy (actually, even for us). So, we want to run this by knowledgeable dog handlers here to see if this is something reasonable or too much/long/early for a puppy this age.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions/comments.

Regards,
Pat

I don't understand. You eat in 8 minutes? Or she is out of the crate for 8 minutes of your meal?

5 months is old enough for her to be respectful while you eat. She could have a rug in the dining room and a chew toy.

What would you like her to do while you eat? Stay out of the room completely? Lie quietly under the table?

If you can give us an idea what you want, we can help you better.

Also, in my experience, I have found it helpful NOT to have myself eating being a cue to the dog that it is going to be fed. My dogs are fed a good hour, or at minimum a half hour, after I eat, dishes are done etc. My meal time has nothing whatsoever to do with theirs.

Actually they eat their morning meal before I eat mine, as well. They know they go out, then get fed. So when I eat they are back in bed sleeping. At night they get fed on a schedule, regardless of what I'm doing (I eat when I'm hungry which may or may not be nnear their mealtime).

Dogs always look for clues in their routines. They know when such and such happens, such and such is going to follow. If you make your meal part of the dog's routine, so that it knows when you are done eating it will then be fed, it will be harder for the dog to be calm and patient by the end of the meal and during cleanup. Just a thought. OK... I think I need to go to bed now.

Pat, this is excellent advice. Especially about the routine part and the dog expecting to eat after your meal.

I made this mistake thru trial and error. After I would eat, mine thought she was to immediately be fed. I eat and quirky times, too.

Now she is not confused about when I eat and she is more patient.

So, I agree, mix it up a little so far as how long after your meal is your dogs.

Hi,

Thank you for your late-night response It helps me realize that we might have inadvertently given our puppy cue we would not want later on.

It is something about "always eating before your dog" concept that got us do that. Perhaps, it's conceptual thing that does not impact much of establishing pack structure given that other aspects are done right.

Hi Pat, Angela's advice was excellent. Something else I thought of while I was reading your initial post - when you finally do put your pup's food down in front of her, do you ask/require her to "actively" wait, sitting there, before you release her to actually dive in? This is another handy thing to work on that increases your control over food and feeding time... it's easy to work on this if your pup already knows "leave it".

~Natalya

We don't always eat at the same time either but our dogs do. Sometimes we eat before them, other times they eat before us.

BUT - the dogs are REQUIRED to sit and wait to be released before they can eat. This is an easier task for our 10.5 year old lab than it is for Kaiser. The lab (Brandy) will sit their patiently, which to her could be forever, before she gets to eat.

Kaiser on the other hand, will sit there calmly for a few seconds, then you can see the tail start to fidget and the front paws being lifted slightly off the ground and back down again. If I leave him there more than a minute he will lay down and grumble - tail still fidgeting until released.

Point here is, I think, and this is MY opinion only, that it really doesn't matter when YOU eat but what's important is that THEY know that they can not eat until you let them. That I think builds pack structure as well - not so much the timing of who eats when (other than their requirement to eat when you say it's ok).

 Quote: Peter Marek

... not so much the timing of who eats when (other than their requirement to eat when you say it's ok ...

That's certainly my opinion too.

Thanks again for more inputs. I feed her in the crate and usually ask have sit, only briefly though before I say crate and put food down for her to dive in. I think that way I can teach her "crate" command. Perhaps, I should also add "OK" cue before letting her dive in after putting it down.

I'm in agreement with Peter and Connie. When you feed doesn't matter. My dogs actually eat dinner before me. And they eat breakfast (I don't) and I eat lunch (they don't).

But they sit at attention looking at me (not the food) when the food bowls are put down. It's a game we all enjoy. Start with a short wait before giving the release to eat. Then start making it more challenging, to proof the behavior. Wait longer...say other things to the dogs, but not the release word "...boy, that looks like some good food there...you sure are a good boy to look at me..." or even turn your back or walk to the other side of the room before returning to release. Any break, and the food bowl is picked up and we start again.

Here's another technique that may or may not work. Pretend to eat some of the dogs food before you put it down. Just smack your lips a bit and make chomping noises. Or actually eat a cracker over the bowl. While I don't think it's important for the "leader" to eat first...it is important to telegraph to the dog that the food belongs to YOU. But as a benevolent leader, you're willing to share your food with them.

 Quote: peter marek

We don't always eat at the same time either but our dogs do. Sometimes we eat before them, other times they eat before us.

BUT - the dogs are REQUIRED to sit and wait to be released before they can eat. This is an easier task for our 10.5 year old lab than it is for Kaiser. The lab (Brandy) will sit their patiently, which to her could be forever, before she gets to eat.

Kaiser on the other hand, will sit there calmly for a few seconds, then you can see the tail start to fidget and the front paws being lifted slightly off the ground and back down again. If I leave him there more than a minute he will lay down and grumble - tail still fidgeting until released.

Point here is, I think, and this is MY opinion only, that it really doesn't matter when YOU eat but what's important is that THEY know that they can not eat until you let them. That I think builds pack structure as well - not so much the timing of who eats when (other than their requirement to eat when you say it's ok).

I agree with the above and practice the same thing with my thirteen week old boxer puppy, Gabbie. When we first got her I trained her to know first, when we're eating she is not to be near the table period. It didn't take her long to figure that out. Now she'll go lay on her bed when we're eating. She is on her own schedule with meals. I started the day I got her with her with being patient for food. She'll now sit in her bed until I say "go ahead". She'll then jump out and eat. Now if I leave the food down she'll eat at her leisure, which is fine by me. It's when I am preparing it I don't want her near and she hasn't tried barking for food since she was nine weeks old.

If their not patient I would just put the food up and walk away for awhile(this is what I did at first). After awhile they get the picture.