My Lab surprised me this evening, and I'm wondering if any of you bite trainers can tell me what happened.

As you know, I'm not into SchH or PP training. I have a Labrador, who I adopted at 18 months of age.
He's always been fairly territorial; will bark and raise hackles at strangers approaching the house, or when there is a knock on the door; but he is easily redirected through obedience and will stop his display when I put him in a sit or a down.
I always felt that he would most likely pick flight over fight, as he is a Lab after all. Tonight, my husband was out
on the front porch, door closed. He must have made some kind of noise out there, because the dog started barking as if a stranger were out there.
When my husband opened the front door and started coming into the house, for some unknown and stupid reason, he made a growling sound at the dog. The dog
touched my husband's hand (the one on the doorknob) with his muzzle about the same time that he recognized it was my husband and not a stranger (there was no snap, his mouth was closed, but his front paws did come off the ground as he kind of "bonked" the hand). I guess that surprised me,
because I would have predicted that my dog would back away from the door and keep a distance if he really thought that a stranger were entering the house uninvited.
I'm surprised that he made physical contact.

Last night I was talking with my daughters about safety, and telling them that they can't rely on the dogs to protect them, should
a bad guy break into the house; they need to be prepared to defend themselves. That's when my 14 year old told me that one day, when she had to come in through the back and nobody was home,
the Lab had come running to the back room, barking and hackles up, but recognized her immediately when he saw her, and greeted her warmly.

I'm just wondering how you might evaluate this dog based upon the information provided? I'm not planning on doing PP with him, but I'm beginning to rethink
my previous assumptions about his willingness to defend the house. Maybe I was wrong about him? I thought I had a cupcake.....

I bet he was afraid.

Robert

Probably, which is why I always figured that he'd retreat when faced with a threat. Now I'm not so sure. I thought that in general, fearful dogs will retreat, or attack from behind, but will not stand their ground unless backed into a corner. I'm assuming that the hackles are a sign of low confidence, but if he were weak nerved, would he not retreat?

I'm sorry if this is an idiotic question.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I heard that some weak nevered dogs will bite out of fear, kinda like a pre-emptive strike. "I'll get you before you get me" kinda deal.

Ask Richard, he seems to know alot and is nicer then VanCamp <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

Robert

Most labs will bark. There not a Chessie, but they seem to have alittle more edge to them than a Golden typically. (Just from my experience) There's no doubt in my mind that a dog like this especially the retrievers would want to die to protect their owner. Many would I think. The thing is a dog that isn't protection trained is not equipped to fight a person. They don't know how. There have been some cases where they have but it's extremely rare. I use to believe this about my dogs when I was a kid, as the years have gone by and learning what I have here it's just not possible for your dog to reliably protect you from an attack. Some would attempt maybe, and most will alert you.

Main point being though from what I've learned you dog regardless of breed has to have the right genetic make up and the correct training to be able to perform at that type of thing. Now your dog could nip at someone coming in the back, most will get close and run around a person while barking.

I know it doesn't seem like it though, if the dog knew what to do it would want to protect you. It's not because it doesn't or wouldn't die for their master. Many dogs would do that in a heartbeat. Especially a lab, they live for their master.

I've seen a few Labs that were pretty tough, at least ther thought they were. The hackles up sounds like a lack of confidence. Being in his own property, he is puting on a threat display but I doubt if he would make hard contact if pressed. A lab is big enough, and with this threat display, would probably scare off most intruders but there are some real idiots out there.
VanCamp has some great answers, but don't make direct eye contact or try to pat him on the head. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The Lab's behavior was fear based. He may be less likely to run for cover b/c: 1) He is on familiar territory and 2) trusted humans were around to boost his confidence.

The tricky part of the whole fear biting concept is to understand that the dog is most likely to bite when he *feels* that he can't flee. This is not the same as the dog *can't* flee. Fear biters are not predictable for these reasons, their perceptions of reality are inaccurate, ie they respond to non threatening situations as tho they were being threatened.

None of what you describe is *protection*. Tho I do agree, a weak nerved dog can make a great alarm dog b/c the fire on everything. Some Labs do have natural territorial instincts and will bark at intruders.

Pls don't be offended by this, but your Lab should not be used for breeding. Weak nerves and a lot of defense are not correct traits for this breed. Labs should have very little suspicion of humans. Again, Labs who bark do so out of territoriality, not defensive aggression.

You are correct, this is not a dog you could rely on for genuine protection. He's far more likely to look to you to protect him. But, you wouldn't get a Lab for that purpose anyway.

Also agreed about the Chessie having better protection potential.

Great answers. Pretty much confirms what I already thought. This brings up the weak nerved subject again, though. While this dog shows lack of confidence on home turf when strangers approach, he is basically a bomb proof dog otherwise. He's not at all afraid of loud noises, thunder, fireworks, etc. The first time he saw a diver in full gear, he had no problem. He'll go on a boat or hot-load a helicopter no problem (he hot-loaded a Huey like a champ, and rode in a civvy helicopter like it was just another day at the office). If he were truly weak nerved, wouldn't he have a problem with at least some of these things? Or does weak nerves mainly apply to defense? Or, are there degrees of weak nerves, like a scale of one to ten or something?

Joy, he is neutered. No breeding here! I would never breed my dog unless he or she were an exceptional representative of the breed.

Oh, and be nice, VanCamp! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

****Never mind! I just read the thread titled "Confused". I guess that means that my dog falls somewhere toward the weaker end of the nerve continuum, or maybe somewhere closer to the middle, perhaps?

From what you posted about his expierences he sounds like a good dog, however his territorialism brings out his defense which he doesn't seem comfortable with. Others on this board could give you more expierenced answers but this is my oppinion.

He is a great dog! He's sweet and loveable like a Lab should be, gentle with the kids and cats, has great ball drive, like a Lab should. He's confident enough to follow me everywhere I have asked him to do so. It's just this one thing that isn't quite "perfect" about him.