Jo Harker wrote 06/05/2009 11:58 AM Kibble vs Raw #242712 - 06/05/2009 11:58 AM
Jo Harker Webboard User Reg: 10-24-2008 Posts: 921 Loc: Indiana Offline	I keep reading about kibble taking anywhere from 8-16 hours to digest (depending on the website) and raw taking 2-8 hours to digest (again, depending on the website). My dogs ( almost 40 years of owning dogs) never vomited kibble even 4 hours after eating so I can't understand the concept of kibble taking hours and hours to digest. (Although, they all ate their share of fresh caught meat, so that may have helped.) I'm the kinda gal that likes scientific proof of hard claims. So, does anyone know of any good studies that can back this up? Something to take to our vets? To keep on our desks? Just to have as a reference? I would prefer a a double blind, but a good scientific study by reputable people would be great, NOT word of mouth or anectdotal. Look! I DO fit in the bag.
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Michael_Wise wrote 06/05/2009 12:09 PM Re: Kibble vs Raw [Re: Jo Harker ] #242715 - 06/05/2009 12:09 PM
Michael_Wise Webboard User Reg: 07-10-2006 Posts: 4454 Loc: Arkansas Offline	I had a link to an article on the study of captive maned wolf diets. They also looked into the different digestion rates. This involved some kind of marker that was ingested at each meal so they could track the transit time. I lost the link when I had to reformat my computer. I will do me best to find it sometime today and post it. I found it after a few emails that I had with the maned wolf curator at our local zoo. I questioned the use of Science diet, and had quite a good conversation with him about it.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 06/05/2009 12:19 PM Re: Kibble vs Raw [Re: Michael_Wise ] #242718 - 06/05/2009 12:19 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Does this sound like part of it? "The use of a commercial low protein diet (Science Diet/UD) has been tried in maned wolves at CRC (in conjunction with Thiola) with limited success." I have saved quotes about unformed watery stools, but not the citation. I found a note: Maned wolf nutritional management, from Husbandry Manual for the Maned Wolf Edited by Connie Sutherland (06/05/2009 12:31 PM) Edit reason: eta
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Joyce Salazar wrote 06/05/2009 12:25 PM Re: Kibble vs Raw [Re: Michael_Wise ] #242721 - 06/05/2009 12:25 PM
Joyce Salazar Webboard User Reg: 02-28-2008 Posts: 2075 Loc: Dallas, Texas Offline	Michael, I hope you can find it, because I am so very interested in reading it! Joyce Salazar
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Connie Sutherland wrote 06/05/2009 12:30 PM Re: Kibble vs Raw [Re: Joyce Salazar ] #242722 - 06/05/2009 12:30 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Jo, I'm really curious about how you differentiated. Was there vomitus at all? If so, how did you know it was/was not kibble? Or was there no vomitus after four hours or so (but just bile or similar)? Also, digestion doesn't end in the stomach. That is, digestion is still going on after the food has left the stomach. I'm not trying to give anecdote where you asked for science, but just curious about the basis presented.
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JessicaKromer wrote 06/05/2009 12:31 PM Re: Kibble vs Raw [Re: Joyce Salazar ] #242723 - 06/05/2009 12:31 PM
JessicaKromer Webboard User Reg: 10-28-2006 Posts: 991 Loc: CA Offline	Is this the study? I didn't get a chance to read it... MANED WOLF NUTRITIONAL MANAGEMENT Jessica
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Michael_Wise wrote 06/05/2009 12:40 PM Re: Kibble vs Raw [Re: JessicaKromer ] #242724 - 06/05/2009 12:40 PM
Michael_Wise Webboard User Reg: 07-10-2006 Posts: 4454 Loc: Arkansas Offline	Quote: jessicakromer Is this the study? I didn't get a chance to read it... MANED WOLF NUTRITIONAL MANAGEMENT Almost. That looks "pre-study". It mentioned they were "trying" the isotope marker to monitor water absorption of different foods. What I had found gave the results of that. As a side note, I always loved this "DUH!!!" quote.  Quote: Article in Jessica's post It has been observed that when wolves are fed meat-based diets and/or whole prey, stool quality is improved.
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Jo Harker wrote 06/05/2009 01:15 PM Re: Kibble vs Raw [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #242730 - 06/05/2009 01:15 PM
Jo Harker Webboard User Reg: 10-24-2008 Posts: 921 Loc: Indiana Offline	Bile only. And, I do understand that digestion doesn't end only in the stomach, but raw digestion vs kibble digestion per anectdotal internet raw vs kibble "wars" state kibble is found in stomachs, kibble is found in vomitus, kibble is found etc. So, in my scenario, kibble was NOT found in vomitus even 4 hours after eating, hence my questions. Does that make sense? Typing at work, and trying not to get caught. Look! I DO fit in the bag.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 06/05/2009 01:20 PM Re: Kibble vs Raw [Re: Jo Harker ] #242732 - 06/05/2009 01:20 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: jo harker Bile only. And, I do understand that digestion doesn't end only in the stomach, but raw digestion vs kibble digestion per anectdotal internet raw vs kibble "wars" state kibble is found in stomachs, kibble is found in vomitus, kibble is found etc. So, in my scenario, kibble was NOT found in vomitus even 4 hours after eating, hence my questions. Does that make sense? Typing at work, and trying not to get caught. Gotcha. I had not read that argument (kibble in vomitus/stomach, etc.), but more the timed rate from ingestion to poop of kibble and then fresh, and more recently of marked foods. I'll see what I can find online later.
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Aaron Myracle wrote 06/05/2009 01:29 PM Re: Kibble vs Raw [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #242734 - 06/05/2009 01:29 PM
Aaron Myracle Webboard User Reg: 06-06-2008 Posts: 5062 Loc: WA, USA Offline	Kibble has to be rehydrated before it can be digested. It takes how ever long it takes a stomach to rehydrate kibble. Raw is full of liquid, and needs no rehydration.
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