Hi, everyone!

We are getting a working GSD puppy in a couple of weeks, when she turns 8 weeks old.

I should probably say from the outset that neither my wife nor I had any dogs in the past, even though we always wanted one. So, for the past 10+ years I've been reading Ed's articles here on leerburg.com, and now that we've decided on a puppy, we bought and watched a few of his DVDs, read books on the topic, and generally seriously try to educate ourselves as best we can, including, of course, reading articles on this forum.

We already found a holistic vet right next to us, whom people around here seem to love, who made a great impression on us, and who is not against raw food. Well, he did voice a concern about salmonella and such, and recommended Nature's Variety, but didn't even argue with our decision to feed home-made raw.

One of the immediate questions I have is this:
As I said, we're getting the pup in 2 weeks. We know that she's being fed Iams puppy kibble by the breeder. We definitely want to feed her raw food. However, I am still very unclear as to how to do this best. I think I've read through every thread on this forum relating to feeding puppies, but I'm still very confused. Some people advise taking it easy, and continuing feeding the puppy the same food it was eating before, to ease the transition into a new home, and start off with a little hamburger as one of the 3 meals, and going from there. I can understand this logic, but it also seems to be a general consensus that Iams is a very bad thing to feed an innocent dog, so I'd hate to keep my future puppy on it any longer than I have to.
I've read other recommendations, about going "cold turkey". But those differ, too. Do I start with ground meat for a week or so and not add RMBs until the puppy's stomach settles? But then Connie's phrase "dietary disaster" comes to mind. Or do I start with chicken necks? I have found out that a butcher right next to my work will sell 40-pound cases of them and chicken backs cheaply, so it looks like I have a supply of them.

I'm sorry for the rambling post. It's just I'm completely new at this, want to do the best I can for my (future) dog, and don't want to screw it up for her. I know that every dog is different, and there is probably no one-size-fits-all solution to this, but I'd really appreciate an advice on what approach I should take when I pick up my pup in two weeks, what I should have on hand (food-wise. The dog already has more toys than I had as a child, LOL), etc.

ETA: The breeder also voiced a concern about raw food. She said that I should be careful with a high-protein diet while the pup is grown. But the consensus on this forum seems to be that it's not really an issue with raw, correct? Anyway, she told me to seek advice from people experienced with feeding raw, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

Thank you very much in advance,
Sam.

Hey, Sam.:smile: Welcome to the forum.

10 years in the waiting, huh? God I hope you are prepared enough. You sure you know what you are getting in to?

Sorry, just pickin' at you. That's awesome that you have put that much time and thought into getting this pup.

When you said, "read books on the topic", was this in reference to raw feeding?

If not, I hate to make you research any more about this pup, but I'd advise spending money ONE more time and get some raw feeding books. There is just something about having the black and white text in you hand. You'll get so much out of it the 7th time you read it.

'Twere me, I'd go cold turkey with the switch.

First thought is to start with necks or backs, but I'd really feel a little more comfortable for the puppy people to chime in here.

There are a few other things that will help with the switch.

I'm not sure how much you know about raw feeding, so don't want to bore you with details that you already know and don't need.

Post back and let us know what books or info you've read so that we have an idea about what you already know.

Thanks for the welcome and encouragement, Michael!

On feeding raw, I've read "Raw Dog Food" by Carina Beth Macdonald, Cindy's excellent e-book on this topic, and all the other articles on leerburg.com (Q&As, menus, "raw feeding puppies", etc.) that I could find, as well as pretty much every thread in this sub-forum. I would freely admit that I've only read Cindy's e-book about 3 times, and "Raw Dog Food" only once so far.

I think I have a pretty good impression of what a raw menu for a puppy or a dog should be once it's on it. The problem is, everybody talks either about a dog who's already successfully eating raw, or about what to do with a dog/puppy that's being switched but is having problems.

I'm sure I'm waaaaay over-analyzing this thing, but I'd like to do all the research I can in order not to end up in that second camp. I'm sure I'll still have enough questions to pester you guys with once I get the pup, and I'd rather not have to add "bloody watery diarrhea" to the list.

WELCOME!!!

My personal choice is to go cold turkey if the owner is committed and comfortable. For those who aren’t and are “testing the waters” so to speak, then I go with gradual meals. So, figure out which you are and go from there.

Now, as for what to feed, I highly recommend Cornish game hens, breasts and backs. The Cornish game hens have very easy bones for pups, and come in convenient puppy sized packages, BUT they can get expensive.

My second favorite thing is whole chickens (and/or rabbit if possible&hellip cut up. It is really not hard to cut up a chicken, and gives you a lot of food for the buck and typically has some liver, a heart and a little kidney attached to the frame as well as a neck. For a pup, I give the upper portions, the back and breast. Since you don’t already have an adult, you can eat the leg quarters or freeze them for later (like two months, this will add up fast, but will come in handy and save you money as well.) A four month old GSD should be fine eating a leg quarter...

Back to the pup. As you have read, the poop will tell you how you are doing. If it is loose, you either have too much in general, too much fat, too much organ meat, or not enough bone. Personally I have the best results with a breast just as it is, but you may need to cut off a slice of meat at first to get the first few stools firm. Then slowly add the meat back in. You may also need to peel off all the skin as well, but try to put that back into the diet as soon as you can. Pups need the energy for all that growing.

My pups have always self regulated pretty well on raw, as in they don’t eat too much in one sitting. I think part of it may be that since they take their time eating (it is hard work sometimes!) their tummies get the chance to send them the full signal when they are. From that standpoint, I would offer a chicken boob and let them eat it. When they are done, I put it back in a zip-lock bag and back in the ‘fridge for the next meal. Now obviously, if the pup starts to get fat, then you would restrict the meal a little…

For the organs, I give it fairly early on. I want them to have all the nutrients they can get as soon as possible. Just add a little (like a half a teaspoon) at a time and see how it goes. I would also see about getting some tripe; even if it is ordered through one of the online sites. It is full of good stuff.

You should expect that the first couple of days will be yucky in the excrement department. He is used to eating crap, and his gut needs to catch up. Loose stool, or back and forth between loose and firm may happen. Just make sure he is getting enough fluids. I like to up the bone (a couple of extra necks is a great way, or cut off more meat), and loose all fat and organ meat until I get back to normal. Everybody gets a loose stool here and there, and newly switched dogs get them more than most, so expect that a little.

After you have the dog doing great with the skin on (I give it a week or so&hellip and the organ has been introduced, you need to start adding fish oil and vit E. Just a little at a time. Then you can start adding other meats. I do it by buying cow and pork neck bones. They have a little meat and make a great rec bone for a pup. If all goes well, I will add more and more red meat, but most bones found on these larger animals are too big for a pup to eat. So you have to add chicken or rabbit bones to that to keep stools firm and the meal balanced. Too much meat without bone in a pup will cause issues. You can also add turkey necks to the rotation fairly early on as well.

A really great way to make sure you are balanced if you are having issues is to get The Honest Kitchen. It will be a great base to launch off into raw feeding with…. Like Sarah said on another post, it isn’t rocket science, but there are a couple of things that are required to make it a balanced diet.

Are there any specific questions you have that can be answered?

If it was me, I would go cold turkey. However, I would not switch him/her until 9 or 10 weeks. The reason for this is because you don't want the little guy (or girl) to have the stress of adapting to a new home environment AND the stress of adapting to a new diet. Change one thing at a time!

It is normal for puppies (and adult dogs) to have diarrhea when they are rehomed. This is due to stress and will clear up soon. However, if you had changed his/her diet on the same day you bring him/her home, you will not know what is causing the diarrhea.

When you do change, the important thing is to stick with one protein source (such as chicken) until you know the dog can tolerate it, then gradually introduce others.

I have fed my dogs raw for short periods, but not long term, so I hope someone on here can advise you of the nutrients puppies need. However, I don't feed puppies "puppy kibble" after four months of age as it actually has TOO MUCH calcium and encourage the dogs to grow too fast, causing bone/skeletal and joint problems (such as pano). I did feed puppy food to my bitch when she was pregnant and nursing and to the puppies when they were small. Hopefully someone well-versed in the raw diet will comment here.

Edited by Angela Burrell (06/06/2009 11:23 AM)
Edit reason: whoops posted at the same time as Jessica

Pups raised on a raw diet DO tend to grow more slowly which is much better for their skeletal system & joints. Just one of the many bonuses of a raw diet. Just make sure that the calcium/phospherous balance is correct in the meals. Especially when feeding pups.

Thanks, everyone!
This is very helpful, and I appreciate it a lot.

I think that the agreement seems to be that "cold turkey" is the way to go. I'll do that. It will be less confusing for both us and the puppy.

Jessica,
So, I can start with necks or backs right away, without going hamburger-only at first? That would sure alleviate my concerns about unbalanced meat/bone ratio.
I think I'll get some THK, too, just to have on hand in case I need it.

Angela,
Re: waiting for a couple of weeks, what do I feed her in the mean time? The same Iams Puppy that she's currently been fed, to minimize the changes?

Anne,
Thanks for the reassurance.

 Quote: Sam Fain

Thanks, everyone!
This is very helpful, and I appreciate it a lot.


Jessica,
So, I can start with necks or backs right away, without going hamburger-only at first? That would sure alleviate my concerns about unbalanced meat/bone ratio.
I think I'll get some THK, too, just to have on hand in case I need it.

Yep. Just watch his poops, and if they are too firm*, you need to add a little more meat to them. As you are doing chicken, that would be the meat to add, either ground or just meat you would buy for yourself. I would have that on hand if you want to go straight frames or necks. He will need a little more meat. But if you go one meal with just a frame, you can add a little the next meal and a little more after that to see what he can tolerate.

Remember, even dogs on raw for years have both too hard and too soft stools. This is to be expected and even worse on a newly switched and young pup.

FYI, the hamburger only would almost guarantee too loose stools, and is why many have problems at first. hey need to add more bone.



*Too firm would be anything he has to really strain to push out, or that crumbles very easily when fresh.*

Sam

Yes - I would feed him the Iams puppy that he is used to for at least a day or two. Many times the breeder would be willing to give you a bit of his food to take home with you. If his poops are fine after the couple days, you could probably switch him then if you are very keen on it. I myself like to err on the side of caution and would wait about a week. If he does get "stress poop" after moving in with you, wait about 3-4 days after it clears up.

Thank you again, ladies!

I will do exactly as you advised me. A few days to a week on Iams Puppy (I guess just being bad doesn't mean it'll kill her) to ease the initial anxiety. And then cold turkey to the raw diet of chicken necks with some meat added as necessary. Hopefully, it'll spare both the pup and us some unnecessary stress.

Are all "dog people" this nice, helpful, and patient with novices or is it just the inhabitants of this forum?
The reason I'm asking is that I have no experience with dog owners but a lot with web forums. And a lot of the latter are very different.