Well I have a 4 year old black lab that I adopted a few months ago. I bought a dogtra ecollar and Ed's training video. He is pretty soft yet can be quite stubborn. I found his working level was 14 and that was right when he smelled at the ground. He is past the learning stage on basic commands so I got the collar to go though the correction phase. He is not collar wise but he quickly became remote wise. I asked him to sit, he didn't, so I said No and nicked him, and he just kind of shut down. He just laid down and looked very stressed and wouldn't move unless I dragged him up. I ignored it and I got him walking and I asked him to come,and he did. The next time I called him he ignored me so I said no and nicked him, and he once again shut down. I did this a few times with various commands and he just shuts down. And now he shuts down when he sees the remote. Should I just abandon any hopes of ecollar use? Also he doesn't shut down with a heavy leash pop.

You are too high on the stimulation. Go back to foundation training, helping the dog succeed. Lure for the sit and reward.
The dog is mentally shutting down and that's bad. Use food and treats to let him know you are not evil. E collar stim is very different than a leash pop. Hope this helps,
Happy Training,
Roni

Make sure you are not pointing the remote at the dog and making it obvious that you have something in your hand. Probably a good idea to put it in your pocket.
A good exercise is to put the collar in your hand and practice pressing the button. Three quick nicks are more effective than one.
Roni

I was very careful to make sure Hans did not become collar wise. And he isn't. In fact, he gets very excited when I pick up the e-collar because he knows we're going to do something and usually that means fun.

But he is remote wise. The funny thing is, anything shaped like the dogtra remote will do. If he ignores me I can pick up my Tivo remote and he'll suddenly obey. Being a typical modern 21st century guy, I have remotes all over the house. And it doesn't matter if he is wearing the collar or not.

I had a Pit (actually, my ex owned him) many years ago who used to steal the remotes and hide them. Made correcting him very difficult. It was actually quite funny. He would behave and act all nonchalant, then you'd make the mistake of laying the remote on the counter or table, and suddenly he's into trouble and the remote was nowhere to be found. He was an odd duck. I doubt he was properly introduced to the collar and he was a smart guy, so he figured it out quickly that he couldn't be corrected if he stole that little black box.

Rich's post reminded me of that...sorry for the hijack.

I do agree w/Roni that the dog needs less stim and more foundation. It sounds like he's going into avoidance which, IMO, means uncertainty. Reinforce the correct execution of the commands he tends to mess up.

the problem is that that is pretty much the lowest setting that gets a reaction I can hit it all day at 10 and he won't feel anything and the points are touching his neck. It goes to 127. When between 11-13 I really don't see any reaction that is consistent. I think it is more that he is uncertain about what he is feeling and why. Should I pair the stimulation with a pop of the leash. So

 Quote: jenni williams

.... I do agree w/Roni that the dog needs less stim and more foundation. It sounds like he's going into avoidance which, IMO, means uncertainty. Reinforce the correct execution of the commands he tends to mess up.

I would back up to Square One.

QUOTE: Go back to foundation training, helping the dog succeed. Lure for the sit and reward. ... The dog is mentally shutting down and that's bad. Use food and treats to let him know you are not evil. E collar stim is very different than a leash pop. Hope this helps. END from Roni

Can we help you with foundation work? Can you tell us about the training? For example, how did you train "sit"? And what level of compliance did you have pre-eCollar?

First of all welcome and thanks for adopting a dog in need.

 Quote: Kamron Ghani

He is pretty soft yet can be quite stubborn.

Do you know much of his background; not that it matters in the long run, IMO what's past is past, but at 4 years old he may not have been given the foundation, communication or stimulation that would allow him to catch on and be through the learning phase in only a couple of months.

I like to give a new dog even an adult; some puppy license. Lots and lots of management with no chance to practice unwanted behaviors and beginning obedience training as a bond is being built.

Are you familiar with marker training? I agree with others that going back to the beginning and building a strong foundation will do more in the long run to get the behavior you want than correcting while he still seems unsure of what you expect. I think there is a time and place for correction but I don't think you and your pup are there yet.

I've done some work with older dogs and even those who are already basic obedience trained usually need a certain period of retraining. Remember dogs are all about the nuances of body language. The commands may be the same but its a whole new body language they need to learn.

What is your dog's name and do you have any pictures?

I taught sit with food as well with other commands. I held the food in my hand and when he sat he got it. Then I added the word sit with it. He complies fairly well when convenient and every time I have food. A moderate leash pop gets him to comply fine when he chooses not to obey. I did adopt him, and I have no idea of his past. I feel as though his original owner probably misused an e-collar and the stimulation brings bad memories. Yes I'm familiar with marker training, and used to use clickers, but now I use yes after coming across this site so I don't need hold another thing. His name is Milo, not my choice, just kept his name since I'm a little lazy.

 Quote: Kamron Ghani

I taught sit with food as well with other commands. I held the food in my hand and when he sat he got it. Then I added the word sit with it. He complies fairly well when convenient and every time I have food. ....

How does he know if you do or don't have food?

From your post, it sounds like the food was a bribe rather than a reward. That is, you showed it to him to bribe him to comply. Would that be a fair evaluation?

This would really prompt me to start over, using marker training rather than bribing.

I would also want very much to work on my bond with the dog, based on his shutting down, on your perception that he may have been abused by e-collar before, and on the method of training so far.

None of this is confrontation or judgment. It's much easier to see the forest when you're outside and not stuck in the middle of all the trees.

I know that we could help you with re-starting the basic ob work, and I also know that Ed's marker video would be wonderful for you.
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