We were walking yesterday and Lucy was in front of me (her turn to sniff and choose the route) when her left knee went out. I thought at first her leg shattered it was so horrible to see.

After a few gyrations, she got everything back where it belonged, but it seems very loose now. My question is, how do you all (who have dogs with this problem) deal with the exercise after this happens?

She is feeling so good now, she wants to go and go. I keep her in check but we did go a 1/4 mile farther than usual. I do walk her through high grass to teach her to bend her knees instead of walking stiff, but I think I will leave that out for now.

Do I rest her for a few days? Keep her walking but shorten the distance? She is finally getting muscle tone and I really hate to lose that.

Widget has had this his whole life. I actually have never done *anything* about it, as it wasn't bad enough to warrant surgery (and many vets actually don't ever recommend surgery for it) and it really never seemed to bother him. On a walk, he's fine, running along beside me and all of a sudden it goes out and then he just runs on 3 legs until it pops itself back in place.

I have no experience w/a bigger dog and this problem, though.

I don't really do much as far as conditioning b/c honestly, it's never made a difference that I could see whether we walked 7 miles of 70 feet; his randomly pops in and out even around the house. I do make sure he gets lots of cartilage building/repairing foods and vit E/salmon oil....but that's really all. He's 9 now and it is no worse (that I can see) than when he was 1.

Sounds good to me. I do know the Phycox and fish oil helps her stiffness. She went without for 3 days and couldn't get up the steps. 2 days on it again, she was jumping on the couch.

You need to have this knee checked out by a vet again. A minor PL will cause a leg to be picked up for a step. Major ones cause lameness like you described combined with pain. Knees generally speaking only get worse as time goes on. A grade 1 PL generally becomes a grade 2 or 3. Once at the point of pain in walking or going lame there are only a few fair solutions. Pain management, PTS, or surgery to correct the issue. Loose joints generally speaking don't tighten up again on their own.

I only have a small dog with PL. Jumping is highly discouraged. Over extending the back legs as well. This problem is worse for a larger dog. My grade 2 dog can likely go his whole life without ever going under the knife for it because simply the pressure he exerts on that joint isn't nearly the amount of a larger animal.

Fair advice. Hopefully, I can get her in soon, but right now finances suck. I will restrict her and will call vet to get permission to give her pain meds if she needs it and get an appt for Sept. Thats as soon as I can save money to take her in.

Thanks for the response. (Although I didn't like reading PTS, it is a response that needed mentioning...only if the pain is really bad and cannot be managed anymore.)

I am just writing to add to what was said earlier. I don't know the size of your dog but like was said before, it is a lot more difficult for a large dog to deal with this. Also, how old is your dog? If you just noticed this now and your dog is older, you might not have to worry about it getting to the pain management/pts status so soon. I have also had or dealt with dogs who had LP, Specifically, one who needed surgery, and right now, one who is thriving with it. I want you to know as bad as it is, you can sometimes prevent it from getting worse and in rare cases better.

My current dog is also a little dog who was diagnosed with level 2 LP when she was younger. For the past 2 years, her knees haven't slipped out and this is solely due to exercise. Her knees will not move during the LP test and the muscles in her leg are phenominal due to her constantly using them. The thing with the knee is if you are able to build muscle and stretch the ligaments in the leg and around the knee, you can lock the knee cap in place. I just happen to have a little dog who will go swimming forever if she could so that is how I built up her leg strength. The problem is she will drown if she stays in too long but that is a different story.

Remember, it isn't as easy as I made it sound but I was trying to give you the jist of it. Also, I have seen many larger dogs live without their knees getting worse due to exercise and in some cases, surgery and exercise. I hope this gives you a little bit more hope.

-Lamarr

Lucy is 6.5 I think years old. She is 25 pounds (thats her butt in the picture) and I just adopted her early in the year.

I put a call into the vet to talk about conditioning, pain management if needed, and when to bring her in.

thanks for the replies and positive statements (on the whole )

Lucy goes in next Thursday. After talking to Doc and explaining what I saw and him going over her chart, he thinks she may have an ACL tear. We are going to find it or rule it out next week. Until then, limited exercise and 1 Tramadol morning and evening.

Damn.

 Quote: jo harker

After talking to Doc and explaining what I saw and him going over her chart, he thinks she may have an ACL tear.

Jo, is Lucy currently lame in the leg that "went out" from under her? You mentioned she had trouble doing stairs without pain meds, but is she limping? I can't remember whether you suspected LP earlier and just didn't see it completely pop out of joint until this incident, or whether the whole thing was a surprise... An ACL injury will create a pretty consistently gimpy gait though, more so the faster she moves. I really hope, for both you and Lucy, that it's NOT an ACL tear... I really hope not.

Let us know how it goes.

~Natalya

yep, when she runs (seldom), she holds the leg up for a couple of strides, touch down, repeat. Sigh. Drags left paw some too when walking.

When I first got her, I told the doc (who is no longer practicing at the clinic) that she was moving like this, but she didn't seem to concerned. Just a mild luxating patella.

After talking to "my" doc, well, now I don't know what to do about this. If surgery @ his place, 1400 to 2000. Purdue or somewhere else for TPO (?) 3500 to 4000.

Ah well, won't borrow trouble yet. At least she is kibble and grain free with good nutrition to help build her up and keep her up.

PS I never saw her knee go out until this post. Uck! I am glad I did though, now we can see whats going on with her.

Edited by Jo Harker (08/07/2009 10:38 AM)
Edit reason: PS