I am not firing off at any one method just curious.

Each time for the last 1-2 years I get a lot of calls to look at a dog for aggressive behavior, sudden misbehaviors and sometimes (most recently a neurosis problem) I do a psychosocial profile on the dogs. (Owner and dog history including prior training.)

Almost without exception the dogs have had some training advice applied to them that was far off in one direction or not enough in the other. The Dogs are already “in hot water” so to speak about something and much of the things that caused it could have been prevented or eliminated sooner.

Am I the only one who thinks a better balance is needed in training standards? Should dog training be regulated with national standards not just popular ones?

I think that would be a great idea, but how could you regulate something like that?

There are already schools that issues dog training certifcation how could you demand that a trainer/owner attend these classes? Or any form of discipline that required a certain type training.

Maybe in a certain type field of training like SchH or the ring sports or Patrol work. Which have rules and are already established. The required results anyway, that a dog must be able to do this ...

But this would not be the case for the general public. Which 8-10 times are the people/dog owners who have taken such bad advise, and have a messed up dog.

Good thought though.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Don B. Ackerson:


Maybe in a certain type field of training like SchH or the ring sports or Patrol work. Which have rules and are already established. The required results anyway, that a dog must be able to do this ...

But this would not be the case for the general public. Which 8-10 times are the people/dog owners who have taken such bad advise, and have a messed up dog.

Good thought though.

Don't think the "general public" is the only group of people 'messing up dogs' there are plenty of trainers from all dog venues doing it.

Dennis, while I think it would be a great idea, I don't see how you can regulate it. Sadly in our society we are exposed to violence all the time, and a lot of people see absoulutely no fault in doing terrible things to their dogs. At the advise of a trainer or not....

How would you be able to establish a standard for training? Do you apply the same methods to all dogs? Why not just tell everyone they may only train their dog with a blue ball on Tuesdays.

I don't know why you see what you describe as a building trend. I think maybe it is from the fact that there is a lean towards behaviorists as options before putting a dog down, now more than in the past. Not so much that anything has changed in the trainers market.

Maybe the increase you are seeing is due to the fact that people are seeking out behaviorists as the last ditch option, and more vets are recommending them.....

Here is what I think.

Puppy mills and backyard breeders-gone shut down. Kennel owners would have to have testing of their studs and bitches personality done everyother year.
I feel that all pet owners should have a backround check. They should also be required to take obedience classes-the instructors should have to be certified and renew their certifications by being tested and evaluated yearly. By who-well haven't had that brain fart yet.
Anyone who has ever been accused of child abuse/neglect or pet abuse/neglect etc. should NEVER be allowed to own another pet or have any children ever again-not even a pet worm. I feel that all dog behaviors can be prevented with properly training the owners. There are no such things as a born bad dog-they are created by bad owners and breeders. From my experience most owners see the early warning signs of bad behaviors but just brush it off-or figure their dog is in a mood. Most go about showing dominance in completely the wrong way-they don't get the dogs trust or respect, generally what is cute today will be a serious behavior problem in about a month. I think better education and higher standards to becoming a pet owner will lead to better pets.

Ah there I'm done-you asked here is my thought and my biasis. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Better regulation is a nice idea but I dont know how it could fairly be done. As far as no bad dogs, I disagree, there are some dogs that are gentically garbage and are just freaks.As far as not alowing pets to people accused of wrong doings, I think you mean people convicted. Either way Ill move to the mountains and come to town once ayear and trade a few trained dogs for supplies before Ill live in a country where the goverment has one finger in everything that I do like DeDe describes.

Regulation of training would be a nightmare. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Imagine training your dog and having your neighbor look over the fence, see something he doesn't like, and report you to some busy-body crackhead committee.

Better yet, under DeeDee's plan, they can just accuse you of cruelty and take your dog (and any other pet you have) away. What a great tool for your #&#%$@#&%$#%*@ next-door neighbor to use to get back at you for putting that fence one inch over the property line by mistake. And given that alot of hippy-dippy left-wingers think that even Schutzhund sport training is cruelty, we'd all have some pretty serious problems.

Of course, all of this presumes that there could be any consensus among trainers as to methodology which would be certifiable under this little scheme. I think it's more likely that there would be violence at one of these committee meetings than agreement. "The only thing two trainers can agree on is that the other one is wrong."

While I don't have any problem with the notion of shutting down BYB's, getting it done is also another matter. Some of the same reasons here as with the training issue.

BTW, if there's no such thing as a bad born dog, how can they be "created" by breeders? I think you're stuck between a rock and a hard place-on the one hand, believing that you can train away any behavioral problems, on the other knowing that BYB's produce dogs with bad temperaments.

The fact of the matter is that temperament (as noted in many of Ed's articles) is predominantly genetic. There IS such a thing as a bad born dog, some worse than others. You can train away alot of things, but temperament ain't on the list-a dog with a bad one will eventually trade one unwanted behavior for another.

How about this-we all just agree that any time you hear someone say "there oughtta be a LAW!", you get to smack them in the chops. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Hard. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> If they're still committed to the project, they will have then earned the right to explore their proposed legislation more thoroughly. I think this might cut down on the IDIOT LAW factor considerably. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Let me do some back tracking here:
David-where did I say government- DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Is the SPCA a government-judges on the AKC shows a government- NO!These are the types of people I am talking about-I don't want the government in any more of my crap either-a board of dog owners hand picked by an animal organization is more along the lines of what I was talking about.

Iain-I should not have used the words accused I meant convicted-and bad breeders create bad dogs which yes are born bad-so I'll take that one up the waaasoo <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> . But also most of the bad dogs are created by BYB and puppy mills-get rid of them and some of the problem is elimated. Better education of trainer and owner will help also.

Backround checks would hopefully eliminate drug dealers, sexual deviants, abusers, gang members-who generally love to have dog fights, and people who set their dogs up to attack and kill or seriously mame other people(like I have read on this forum) from owning dogs.
These are the people that should not be allowed to own dogs.

Sorry I woke up this morning and thought my @$$ was the hole in the ground.

As an accused animal abuser... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I groomed for a while, anyone in the business will understand the abuse accusations. I have been accused of drugging them (I FREAKING WISH I COULD) beating them, etc. Convicted is another thing entirely, BUT... just because fifi acts like a flaming arse when I hold her paw to clip her nails, does not mean I am hurting her...

I think we will accomplish world peace before you will see puppy mills put to an end. Sad to say but what constitutes a puppy mill to one person, is a large scale breeder to another. Who would do these temperment evaluations?

I think more humans need temperment evaluations than dogs!

It would be a huge and slow train to get rolling I think and may be impossible. I have often thought about Trade Unions and how they are formed and maintained. I have always been an independent entrepreneur and defiantly a capitalist, but a peer-to-peer regulation that is self-inflicted with critical standards might be called for. (Education and/or proof of working experience in the fields you have specialized and maybe an apprentice program would be required might be a good idea.

Another way and (maybe a more simplified way) is an organization who under a free market society organizes good trainers and by way of standards and results of those standards builds a reputation that could organized a grassroots campaign to heighten awareness.

The other “certifying” organizations are out there but they seem to be: If you pay and play the part you will certify. I think many professionals would rather see more competent competition then a lack of competency that is starting to work the legal books toward dog banning other things. I sort of worry about the near future when clients are told to get out of town or get rid of their dog. It is happening in some places as I speak already.

Who is at fault? Is it the pet owner of a Rott. or GSD and others because they own such animals or is it the industry from the breeder to the trainer who has really the power to make the changes?