Old or Outdate recall technique? Does this really work/ I've heard about and seen the ends results.

To insure that the off leash recall is done. The trainer calls the dog off leash, if the dog ignores, the trainer you gather a old choke chain and aim for the dogs rear hips or thighs. And you throw the chain after the ignore command, the dog is startled and returns.

Once he returns the dog is praised. I've seen the results out in the fields and when the dogs ignores the recall, the owner rattles the choke chain and the dog returns to his side. Usually there is no problem with the dogs OB, but just in case there is.

This was a dog that had $2500 worth of OB training and wasd about 3 yrs old.

The purpose of this question is to verify if this was ever a training technique outside of this guys realms of dog training. And to ask if it existed it still recommended.

Its almost like the old muzzle loaders you don't get but one chance to correct the problem, at a time.

And you might just scare the dog off. I'm just asking, you know Its said that you should believe none of what you hear and only half of what you read. Where does this technique stand? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I believe this technique was first popularized by William Koehler. But, as I understand it, the dog is not supposed to realize that the chain comes from you. So it sounds like this person was not doing it properly, if they were using it as a threat. Not that I advocate Koehler's methods....I don't.

Kolhers techniques are considered by some Count Desade of dog training techniques. Anicent, crude but affective.

Ok so it does have some merits and based on something. As for not knowing where something is coming from that thrown at you/the dog. I believe the first time its used when the dog is totally ignoring you.

But after that the dogs knows and can hear the chain move, I mean I've seen dogs react to kids that have thrown rocks at them. The dog will bark like crazy until the kid pick up the rock then its hides, after he throws the rock here comes the dog fly out toward the fence barking. This is bad news if the dog ever out and the kids comes along. This is another subject.

I've seen his dog side step the chain, and but he does return after the miss. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It is a lot older than koehler!
Until the advent of the e-collar accurate throw chain trainers were in high demand, they were on top of their game until someone invented the radio tranmitter and adapted it to deliver a shock.
When i first started training 20 odd years ago you still saw this frequently, in fact once in a while at dog trials you could here the fortuitous jingle of keys timed with an "out" command.
Does it wo9rk? Like everyother compulsive technique its effectivemness is entirely based on the users skill.
In todays world of high tech electronics and animal rights activists I'm not sure it is such a wise move. It certainly is a lot more risky than the e-collar as a missed throw or a moving dog could cause injury.

I used the throw chain 25+yrs ago in AKC obd. As Kevin said, the effetiveness was dependant on the thrower. I've seen more than a few dogs become skittish when they saw arms moving.

Here is the thing:

The throw chain works and sometimes the E-collar loads the dog in the wrong way because it in a non-directional correction.

I have and would use it again for a dog to recall on a send-out. Why?
1) It produces the reliability I demand.
2) Because some (many) handlers have taught their dog to be collar smart to the e-collar and we need to trust the recall on the send out

Training Goal Example: Dog sent for a bite. The dog moves out fast anticipating a bite can closes within 2-3 strides before impact but is recalled to the handler and he does not get the bite. This is an effective and impressive demonstration of handler control.

The E-collar, because it is not as directional by the way it has been employed by some set a situation where the dog might get his wires crossed on who is doing the correction. If he thinks it is the helper/bad guy then they are meat and the E-collar will not be the most effective tool to meet our training goal. This is something a trainer should see and pick up on when they see it happen.

So the throw chain is an option.

One last point: The throw chain should not be employed with a "toss as hard as you can" attitude. It does not need to hurt the dog at all. It only needs to teach a well-trained dog

(NOTE: well trained) you have a long reach and you can and will disrupt his actions. Well training means the dog already outs clean has solid obedience and is adjusted well with the handle and bonded. Distraction and redirection is training practice something it knows and accepts.

In the beginning of this training the dog is online. You DO NOT let the dog know you can miss and you do not make the dog fear you because you used the chain as a weapon. I cannot stress this enough. The chain makes noise the dog associates I with your influence (directional) and he feels you touch him at a distance.

The throw chain is no more or less "directional" than the Ecollar.

One thing about it though is that you must NEVER miss when it's thrown at the dog. It also requires the use of an assistant at some time in the training so that the dog doesn't think it came from you. That assistant also must never miss.

I've never "missed a throw" with an Ecollar. And as far as the dog thinking it came from the decoy that NEVER happens when it's introduced properly. The only time that happens is from misuse of the tool.

Sorry Lou I must disagree. The dog knows the handler has the chain what the chain is and where it came from every time.

The example I gave is one for a specific use and one that is needed. People can blast away about not using it an E-collar correctly and in the hands of a skilled trainer who uses it. Maybe even claim he or she can go back and fix the problems created by poor training attributed to the misuse of the collar and so on but I don’t have the luxury of going back in time and stopping problems other trainers made so knowing a full range of options gives me options. Maybe it will be to continue using the E-collar maybe not at least I know I can have success either way with a few other tricks tucked in the marbles for good measure.

I agree the collar smart dogs don’t happen when trained right but the realty is most people don't train right.
And….
Most dogs "know" when they are wired or not because most people don’t practice collar smart prevention.

I am possibly thinking about something totally different - but:-

We engaged a trainer for a previous dog of ours (Sorry - not a GSD) - and we used a chain as a training tool. It was not aimed at the dog itself, but on the ground, just behind the dog's back legs - to get it's attention.

It worked pretty good too!. The dog picked up on the fact that the sound of the chain behind him, meant "stop what you are doing and listen to me".

It was a good distraction tool, to get the dog's focus back on you.

Heck with the throw chain. . .what a dumb training tool.

Why not just go with the real old school tried and true. . .the slingshot and a pebble. Much more effective than the dumb old throw chain ever was. . .more accurate. lol

Throw chain Dennis? Thats wild man. . .wow.