I posted a little while ago about my pup confusing the sit & platz commands. I figured I was the one confusing her so I followed some of the advice given in the thread. I went back to working only the sit and re-lured and taught the command. I haven't asked for the platz since that post, which was about four weeks ago. I recently (3 days ago) started working on the platz again in short marker sessions where that was the only behavior I asked for. I lured a couple of times, then worked off of the hand signal, and finally tried adding the word "platz" again yesterday. (I didn't do all of that in one session) She has gotten the two confused a couple of times...not many, but I don't want that problem to crop up again.
So if she offers the sit when I give her a "platz," should I simply ignore her and wait until she goes into a platz? Would this spoil the fold-back down I've had her doing up until now? Or should I give her the NRM (nope!) and have her "reset" and try again?

You might want to rename the command. If the word 'platz' has a confused meaning you could try using another word.

I did want to avoid having to rename it, but if that would be best I could use something else.

I do one of two things when that happens. I either move backward, forcing the dog to follow me, and give the command again or I use a negative marker (from the Michael Ellis newsletter videos) to say "hey, you didn't do what I asked". I use kind of guttural "aaah" as my negative marker because it's something that I never do otherwise. I retrained my 13 year old dog, who was trained entirely with compulsion, with marker training and didn't change any of his commands. We just worked through the problems until he started getting them right. It takes a little more time and patience, which I do not have in droves, but I found it be more worthwhile.

If you're really attached to 'platz', you could try using hand signals as the primary cue (which you are already doing) and then work the verbal cue back in when the behavior is very well-established. I would give it several weeks.




Edited by Kristel Smart (09/11/2009 10:29 PM)
Edit reason: clarity

Thanks!

Do you use the German Sitz and Platz? Because I use SIT and PLATZ. Being Swiss and speaking German Sitz and Platz may sound very similar (at least the way the Swiss pronounce it).
Besides the verbal cues you might check your body language.
However it sounds to me - based on what you wrote - your dog doesn't really know the commands, i.e. doesn't generalize. It takes about 5000 repetitions in many different places. And be quick (really quick) rewarding your dog.

I use SIT and PLATZ. We don't have a problem with the sit, just confusion on the platz. I posted a while back about when I was having a problem - I confused her when I was teaching the platz. So I backed off of it and now I'm re-introducing it. I want to approach it properly so that I don't cause confusion again.

 Quote: Rachel Schumacher

And be quick (really quick) rewarding your dog.

I do need to work on this because at times I'm not quick enough and I think that may be what caused part of the confusion in the beginning. I also started asking for both of the behaviors in a single training session prematurely.

Edited by Jasmine Dillon (09/13/2009 04:44 PM)
Edit reason: added

The way I approached this was to train three behaviours, sit, down and stand. I did this because I found when i trained two commands (sit/down) it was easy for the dog (and trainer) to just toggle between them without actually listening to what I said. (sit - down - sit - down ala puppy pushups). Also he is food motivated so if there is food that he can earn, he stops listening completely.

The point of having the three exercises was to force him to listen to the command and think about which behaviour I wanted.

Also key was that I only asked for 2-3 reps of each command per session. Any more than that and he switches off his ears and just starts throwing behaviours out there to get treats. When this happens, the dog isn't learning anything, he's not in learning mode any more.

I switch it up to keep the dog from being bored and from going into feed me mode. Example: stand, down, sit, down, stand. He never knows which one I am going to ask for next. After 5-6 commands, end with jackpot and give quiet time for 15+ minutes.

I started the way you did, by training just one behaviour until I thought he had it, then mixing them. I would give a NRM if he got it "wrong". I also do all our sessions off lead in the house so that I cannot give any (accidental or otherwise) corrections.

Edit: my own, personal feeling is I like nrm better than ignoring for the simple fact that it provides feedback and guidance for the dog, who is trying to learn. I don't like to work on something I've never done before with absolutely no feedback from the one who is supposed to be showing me how to do it, and I try not to put my dogs in that position either. Ignoring forces the dog to either guess (adds stress) or give up. If I see my dog is confused or guessing I try to help it understand what I want.

Angela, thanks! I added in one command "hup" (means to jump up on whatever object I've provided, which is usually a box) into the exercises and tried working the three for a couple of minutes. I used only the hand signal for the platz and a verbal command for the sit. This worked very nicely - there was no confusion on the commands and I saw the "gear switch" as she actually thought about what I was telling her to do.