jenn verrier wrote 09/20/2009 08:20 PM head hatlers #253065 - 09/20/2009 08:20 PM
jenn verrier Webboard User Reg: 04-28-2009 Posts: 129 Loc: Offline	sigh. I have decided to start using the head halter again with luanne. she hates it though. we can walk okay with it, but there will still be times when she tries to get it off. i have the gentle leader brand. does anyone know if there are pros or cons with this or the other brands? I think the other one is halti, and there is comfort trainer (which seems appealing, because it looks like a softer material that goes around the nose)? anyone like one over the other? we've had issues with chafing too, so i lined the thing with felt, but it's not holding up all that well. i am hoping this is going to help, although when she gets into "reactive" mode, if a dog gets too close, it seems like the head halter almost aggrivates her more. however, she will bite me (or whoever is handling her) if i try to get her to calm down and need to touch her to do so, and am not careful. i got a little bite yesterday. i think this would help prevent that.
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Jennifer Lee wrote 09/20/2009 08:59 PM Re: head hatlers [Re: jenn verrier ] #253074 - 09/20/2009 08:59 PM
Jennifer Lee Webboard User Reg: 12-16-2007 Posts: 2851 Loc: oklahoma Offline	Im not sure how a head halter will help to stop her from biting you? In my personal opinion walking her with a device that she hates anyway is going to possibly up her chances at being reactive. I would want her to be as calm and relaxed during walks so that it takes a bit longer for her to go into reactive mode. I would also be really proactive about learning her signals so that you know when she is about to react and can either redirect or move away from the source of her reactions. A dog that is so worked up she will re-direct that aggression onto someone who touches her needs some serious work so desensitize her to the stimuli.
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Kristel Smart wrote 09/20/2009 09:34 PM Re: head hatlers [Re: jenn verrier ] #253081 - 09/20/2009 09:34 PM
Kristel Smart Webboard User Reg: 10-03-2006 Posts: 1548 Loc: Vermont Offline	You aren't going to solve any problems with a tool that creates resistance. A head collar will not prevent biting. I'm not sure why you are wanting to use this...does she pull on the lead? If so, I would go back to square one with leash training and consider a prong collar. As for the biting, I would use a basket muzzle. A lot of reactive dogs can bite when in "reactive mode" and the basket muzzle takes this piece of the anxiety right out of the equation.
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jenn verrier wrote 09/20/2009 09:42 PM Re: head hatlers [Re: Kristel Smart ] #253086 - 09/20/2009 09:42 PM
jenn verrier Webboard User Reg: 04-28-2009 Posts: 129 Loc: Offline	I have begun using it because she walks better on it, and when she spot a dog, i can pull up on it, and get her to sit a lot easier. also, when i pull up on it, she is not able to open her mouth to bite. it just seems like she is easier to control at times.
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Kimberley Voyles wrote 09/20/2009 10:03 PM Re: head hatlers [Re: jenn verrier ] #253090 - 09/20/2009 10:03 PM
Kimberley Voyles Webboard User Reg: 08-27-2009 Posts: 59 Loc: Offline	I am absolutely the last person in the world to give advice, so I am not. But I can share my personal experiences. I have used a halti type of harness, they did help with pulling but the use of one, for me was not practical, as my dog could get her nose out of it and even broke one with a hard pull. Maybe that's why they have that secondary connection to the dogs collar? (I was glad it did have that secondary connection or the dog would have been loose) Now that I have gone to get some professional training, yes, for me and the dogs, I prefer the prong collar, I have control over Thora, she has no desire to pull. With the head harness, she just wanted it off, so she could pull. It was like putting a bandage on the pulling problem. This is just what I have experienced with my dogs.
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Jennifer Lee wrote 09/20/2009 10:12 PM Re: head hatlers [Re: Kimberley Voyles ] #253091 - 09/20/2009 10:12 PM
Jennifer Lee Webboard User Reg: 12-16-2007 Posts: 2851 Loc: oklahoma Offline	The prong is great for stopping pulling, but in my experience it only further amps up my dog if he is reacting to another dog.
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Kristel Smart wrote 09/21/2009 08:23 AM Re: head hatlers [Re: jenn verrier ] #253099 - 09/21/2009 08:23 AM
Kristel Smart Webboard User Reg: 10-03-2006 Posts: 1548 Loc: Vermont Offline	Quote: jenn verrier i have the gentle leader brand. does anyone know if there are pros or cons with this or the other brands? I think the other one is halti, and there is comfort trainer (which seems appealing, because it looks like a softer material that goes around the nose)? anyone like one over the other? There are really only minor design differences between one headcollar and another. The basic premise is still the same. IMHO I have only ever had one rescue dog that this device has worked out well for. I tried one on one of the Dobes awhile back just to check it out. I learned that if you have a willful dog that's engaging in self-rewarding behaviors that you don't like, the headcollar is woefully ineffective. It's pretty funny in hindsight, but the experiment didn't last long. Still, I wish I had video I'm not a huge fan of headcollars because I think their effectiveness is very temporary and they DO chafe; but if it helps your dog, it helps. Just keep in mind that none of them were designed to prevent biting. I DO agree that a prong collar can wind up a reactive dog, but may be necessary on a larger dog. Your dog is small though, right?
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Natalya Zahn wrote 09/21/2009 10:34 AM Re: head hatlers [Re: Kristel Smart ] #253106 - 09/21/2009 10:34 AM
Natalya Zahn Webboard User Reg: 12-22-2006 Posts: 1824 Loc: Cambridge, MA Offline	Quote: kristel smart As for the biting, I would use a basket muzzle. A lot of reactive dogs can bite when in "reactive mode" and the basket muzzle takes this piece of the anxiety right out of the equation. I know some of those head halters sort of close the dogs mouth when you pull on the leash, but it's far from a reliable restraint (and that's not what they're designed to do). I'm with Kristel on this one - why not get her a little muzzle (will probably be less irritating for her to wear than the head halter, once she gets used to it, and it will 100% prevent you from getting bitten while you're working with her on her reactiveness) and either a small prong collar (since she's small dog), or a flat collar to clip the lead to. I'm sure the prong could amp her up if she's already switched "on", but you might find it a great tool for working on preemptive redirection - as Jennifer stated, it's imperative that you learn to read your dog's signals and pay attention to your timing with commands/corrections BEFORE she's in a place where she's so crazed that she'll bite anything that gets too close. Is she pulling also? Or is the issue only with her reactiveness when she sees other dogs? ~Natalya
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Wendy Lefebvre wrote 09/21/2009 12:25 PM Re: head hatlers [Re: jenn verrier ] #253118 - 09/21/2009 12:25 PM
Wendy Lefebvre Webboard User Reg: 12-08-2005 Posts: 1271 Loc: Stoney Creek , Ontario, Canada Offline	Quote: jenn verrier i am hoping this is going to help, although when she gets into "reactive" mode, if a dog gets too close, Im not trying to be a smart-ass Jenn, but if she get's THAT re-active when you get close to a dog, don't get that close to other dog's. She's letting you know that she's not comfortable and it stresses her. For now, you should be working on this problem from a distance from other dogs. Gauge how far you can be from other dogs so that she's comfortable and GRADUALLY work your way up from there. IMO I don't like head halter's. There are other more productive tools out there you can use. Like re-directing or even doing an about face and walking in the other direction will have the same effect as pulling the dogs head and breaking the eye contact she has on the other dog. Don't complain....TRAIN!!!
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Connie Sutherland wrote 09/21/2009 12:36 PM Re: head hatlers [Re: Wendy Lefebvre ] #253119 - 09/21/2009 12:36 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Wendy Lefebvre ... if she get's THAT re-active when you get close to a dog, don't get that close to other dog's. She's letting you know that she's not comfortable and it stresses her. ... For now, you should be working on this problem from a distance from other dogs. ... Gauge how far you can be from other dogs so that she's comfortable and GRADUALLY work your way up from there. Jenn, this should become your mantra. Desensitizing is the way to go here, IMO, and that means working with the dog just outside the edge of her circle of reactivity, only very gradually reducing the distance. This (IMO) is the only long-term solution here. The are many recent threads on this topic, with very detailed steps. If you use desensitizing as your search term and expand the date range to a year or so, you will have a wealth of good suggestions. Here's one: http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/228532 I also agree that head halters are not a training tool.
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