Hi! I'm new here. I was searching for advice on how to stop my Lhasa Apso from biting people's ankles while they're walking out the door of my home. When people come over, he will bark at them (doesn't growl), and stay with them until he's more comfortable with them, but he doesn't bite. (AT least he hasn't yet). Until it's time for them to leave!!! He'll play ball with them for hours and literally be up in their laps until they get ready to walk out the door. And then, Bam! He get's one. He is almost five years old now, and he is a confirmation champion. So he was used to letting strangers touch him and his privates in the ring. Everywhere I used to go, I had people touching him to get him socialized early. But this is not a new problem, he has done this for several years, even while showing.We never know who he is going to go after. He waits until they are on the threshold before he quietly sneaks up and goes after an ankle or calf. And he doesn't do it to everyone. But there is really no pattern to it. I have tried scolding after attacks, putting him in his crate after, even a shock collar to prevent them. So far the shock collar works well, but he knows it's on him, and he doesn't even attempt to go after someone. But he's smart, like most dogs, take the collar off, and the behavior continues. I want to halt the behavior, not have to put the collar on him every time someone comes over. Or keep it on him all the time with company at the house and watch him constantly to make sure I buzz him at the right time if needed.
Most of the time, we just pick him up and hold him, or put him in a different room/area until the visitor has left. But every now and then, when the kids have friends over, they continuously go in/out the door, and he gets one sometimes if I'm not in the room. And these are kids that have been over for several days/nights, that he's played with, slept with, and shown absolutely no aggression towards.

The problem is aggravating, and scary. I dont want visitors and children to be afraid of him, and I dont want a child's family to sue us one day because the dog got their child (or them!) on the ankle. I've also noticed that he used to not break the skin, but lately he's managed to bruise and or cause some bleeding to the site. Not good.

He has been through beginner obedience training and minds me well most of the time. I could put him in a down stay while people are leaving, but that doesnt help me with the children's friends.


Any ideas?

Hi Missy!
First off, you need to change your name to your full first and last name to post here - Sorry, it's the rules and it's in bold print on the page where ya sign up! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Changed it already, but thanks anyway!

You could of answered her question first! It already takes days to get new post on here!

Touche, Mike - good point, but rules are rules.

Missy,
OK, your dog is biting people while they are in motion - does he ever bite anybody when they're stationary? And will he bite/nip at someone that is directly looking at him, or only when they're turned around and retreating from him? Next, is he nipping at them, or is he seriously biting them ( sounds like he's escalating damage), especially - is he biting them repeatedly?

It's not like Lhasa's are a herding breed. And a conformation champion is pretty darn used to being manipulated physically, as Missy points out.

And Missy, my hat's off to you so far in what you've used to try and make a behaviorial change in your dog - you're way ahead of the power curve for most dog owners.

Whatever Mike.


Thanks Willy!!

It sounds to me like you have several methods of managing him, with the exception of the occasional instance where there are children visiting.

But every now and then, when the kids have friends over, they continuously go in/out the door, and he gets one sometimes if I'm not in the room. IMO, this should not be allowed to happen. If you're not going to be in the room to supervise, then the dog should not be in the room either. Keep him with you or put him in his crate or use a baby gate to confine him to another room, or whatever you need to do to be sure that he will not have access to the children without your supervision.

Something that it doesn't appear that you have tried is positive reinforcement for an incompatible behavior. For example, you could teach him to fetch a ball or hold an object in his mouth when people leave. Make it more rewarding for him to do something other than bite. If his mouth is otherwise occupied, he cannot be biting.

Will - No, he has never bitten anyone while they were just sitting, looking at him or not. It has always appeared to be just a nip, not an actual bite, since he usually never breaks the skin, and only when they go out the door. And it's only the one time, not repeatedly. But usually after the first one, the person is out the door and away from him. He does not follow them out biting though. Just recently though, he did actually bite my husband while he was picking him up from behind. I think he scared him, and my husband has a tendency to "show him who's boss" sometimes, so when of course, it escalated, dog growls, husband shakes, dog bites. (they don't get along well as it is). Lhasa is a very dominant breed to start with, and this one has always been too big for his britches. I started dominance aggression behavior management (bought some books, read on the internet, talked with the vet) with him a couple of years ago when I noticed his attitude changing. He had never bitten anyone at all then, but he was starting to growl a lot, not wanting to be picked up, or groomed. And he would just curl his lip at me if I looked at him sometimes if I was down on the floor with him. This was after he finished his championship. I had intended to breed him, but instead, I neutered him to begin to halt the behavior. Overall, he has been much better, except for the sneak attack going out the door. He did something new yesterday. He tried to get my daughter as she took dog treats out to my lab. Just a nip though, not a bite. No growling. He has never done this with a family member, that's why it's new.

Lisa- actually we do put him in another room lately with the baby gate or in another room back in the house when the kids come over, or he is in another room with me. Just for safety's sake. Problem is, sometimes these kids are here for several days and nights. My daughter is 10, and it's a constant flow of friends! So I have a hard time (dont feel right) confining him for that long. And he doesnt always do it. Although I have noticed it's becoming more frequent (a habit, I think). Many times, he goes and gets his ball by himself(prize possession) and is holding it as "short term" company leaves. He is usually shaking it fiercely while they walk out the door, which I'm sure has got to be a dominance/territorial thing with him. He does this at the windows/doors also when he sees my lab outside. If he doesn't have his ball, we just pick him up. He doesnt growl, he just barks. I agree with you, if his ball is in his mouth, an ankle is not! I will try your suggestion.
I'm open to any and all ideas.
Thanks

Kiss my a@@ Vancamp, its cranky old geezers like you who dont want to help new people out, thats whats wrong with the dog sports. You just lurk on here waitin for someone to say something that you can pick apart. Go get a dog and do some training, you spend to much time on the web.

:rolleyes:
I didn't see you offering any advice Mike! Personally I am interested to hear what those who have a lot of knowledge on the subject have to say, not hear grumblers try to pick fights. I am sure Missy would agree.