I have a 6 month old dachshund pup Prana that I just got a few weeks ago. She prefers tennis balls over all (we have the squeaky Kong ones- I prefer to have dogs with teeth) and a furry thing with a squeak for tugging. Most of the toys are only available to play with me though some ropes and rubber thingies for chewing are laying around but these don´t really get much attention from any of the dogs.

I have been playing with different toys and trying to get her to come to me for more fun. With balls I play with two- I trow one, wait her to retrieve, out it and the second she releases mark and reward with trowing the other one. She loves running to get the balls and coming back with it seems to be natural thing to do for her but the last few times we have been playing she has been stopping a little before she gets to me, she starts chewing it and tries to avoid my hand as I reach for the ball. Nothing excessive (yet), just turning her head or taking a step backwards. I out with putting my hand on the ball, say "out" and wait until she releases to mark and reward with the other ball. She actually seems to prefer to drop the ball before getting to me than to bring it all the way.

With the tug she tugs nicely and I try to out her as little as possible. When I release the toy she doesn´t run away with it but just as with the tennis balls she puts it on the ground starts to chew it (you can do this standing up when you are a dachs). She doesn´t try to move away when I grab the toy to continue play but she doesn´t want to bring it to me either. When I back up and try to get her to come to me, she can take a small step towards me but the bringing to me part is not there- she just keeps chewing it on the ground.

I usually have a leash on her so I could reel her in (though the distance she stays is within my arms reach anyway) but I can´t see how this could make her want to bring the toy to me more. I usually sit in the ground when playing so I don´t have to bow over her. She is comfortable with me touching her body and petting her while the is chewing the toy but eventually I want her to retrieve stuff (dumbell, toys, maybe birds) and the dogs I have seen that drop toys to get the other one or slow before handler, tend to do this more and more over time. I have to wait for a couple of months to get my finances in a better shape before I can order the Ellis DVDs and I am afraid that if just I do the same things that are getting me into trouble over and over again for the two or three months I have to wait, it will only get worse and it will be a real pain to get a nice retrieve later on.

Help! Or am I just overreacting? Am I expecting too much too soon and this will just go away?

Jaana,

Most puppies will do almost anything for food. Leerburg sells some tugs that will hold food and they are not very expensive. If the puppy learns that treats come from the tug when it is returned to you, they will be more interested in returning it to you rather than dropping the tug early. Then after she "gets" the idea that good things happen when she returns to you, you will have the opportunity to modify the return. For example, substituting the ball (or other object) for the tug and still getting a treat; and/or fading the treats away in favor of playing with you. I also make sure that the treats are high value ones. And, I have found that sometimes running away from the dog will actually make them more likely to come towards me. Hope that helps!

 Quote: mary k.pope

If the puppy learns that treats come from the tug when it is returned to you, they will be more interested in returning it to you rather than dropping the tug early. Then after she "gets" the idea that good things happen when she returns to you, you will have the opportunity to modify the return.

And an extension of this is teaching "give" or whatever you use as the command to return the item to your hand as a separate step.

As Bob Scott says, the retrieve is not a matter of tossing the item and hoping for the best.

If you chain (or back-chain) the steps in the retrieve, and as Mary says, mark and reward for it as a separate command before stringing the steps of the retrieve together, then the dog (and you) have much better clarity.

There are threads here that go into great detail about teaching the retrieve in steps, and I could probably dig one up for you if you want.

 Quote: Jaana Aadamsoo

... She actually seems to prefer to drop the ball before getting to me than to bring it all the way. ... she doesn´t want to bring it to me ... either. .... the bringing to me part is not there- she just keeps chewing it on the ground.

That's 'cause you haven't demonstrated yet the wonders in store for her when she does put the item into your hand or at your feet (or whatever you teach her).

Use 2 balls and reward her when she trades

 Quote: al curbow

Use 2 balls and reward her when she trades

I think she was saying that even two-ball hasn't tempted the dog to bring the first one all the way back. "Toy in the mouth is worth two toys in the owner's hand" is apparently the dog's motto.

 Quote: Al Curbow

Use 2 balls and reward her when she trades

Al, do you reward for the trade with both a treat and the second ball?

get her to finish coming to you by running away from her, then when she does come to you with ball in mouth, at first, dont take the ball away, let her hold it 15 or 20 seconds & just pet & praise. no reward (food or otherwise) you tugging or tossing the ball to start the game again should be the reward.
also start at short distances, in fact, at your feet, just drop the ball, see if she picks it up, pet & praise for 15 seconds, do it again, after 20 - 30 consecutive pick up, hold, let you have it back repititions, then try tossing it just a few feet away, have a long leash on her (10 - 15ft) but dont hold it, leave it on the ground so if she tries to run you can stop her by stepping on the leash then makes noises, call her, whatever to get her redirected to you.

She's probably stopping short coming back due to anticipating the early throw with the 2nd one, been there done that

If we're playing with the ball the 2nd one gets rewarded for the recall in front, fast recall!

 Quote: Al Curbow

She's probably stopping short coming back due to anticipating the early throw with the 2nd one, been there done that

If we're playing with the ball the 2nd one gets rewarded for the recall in front, fast recall!

Gotcha!


Jaana, if you want to back-chain the release, here's a thread that talks about it:
http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=254698&Searchpage=1&Main=24508&Words=retrieve+Connie+Sutherland&topic=0&Search=true#Post254698

Thanks everyone! I will try rewarding with a treat before starting the play again. At the moment I am not trying to train an actual retrieve but just play, exercise and have fun. I have just read and heard that the good retrieving of a toy is a great foundation for a formal retrieve (I can remember a streaming video where Michael Ellis shows how he teaches the dogs to push the toy to the handler for more play but can´t find it right now) and in my mind it makes sense that if games can improve the future retrieve it can also make the future training harder. I have struggled for months with two dogs that refused to take anything in their mouths to get them retrieving. I finally did (not the fastest or cleanest but enough to get at least decent points) but it has made a lasting impression on how important it is and how hard it can be so I am super jumpy when I get the impression that something could work in my disadvantage.

Me running away thing is hard to do at the moment as we play inside- I stay in a rather narrow hallway and throw the balls to the kitchen and to another room and I have been doing it sitting on the ground as she had a little submissive peeing when she came (it hasn´t happened for a week now) and I don´t want to hover over her. All that is outside however is not considered low distraction yet. I am pretty sure that she would play but I´d be more comfortable if she knew how to play my way before adding distractions. Or should I just give it a try and see how she does? She is crazy for the ball!

She had been trying to keep even further but today I tried squeaking the ball that I have if she stayed too far (over 50 cm I think) and that makes her come closer. Then I tried marking and tossing my ball when my hand touched her ball. She releases immediately when she sees the second ball fly and it seemed to work- she didn´t try to run past me anymore when she came back and started moving away less when I reached for the ball. I had to end it at that point so she wouldn´t get too tired.

Now I have to really work at not moving before I pause after marking. I have trained myself to be fairly reliable with food but with toys I need an e-collar or something...