Just as I was told, it is EXTREMELY difficult, if not hopeless, to find some real hard dogs German Shepherd in North America, My last post had 60+ visits & NOBODY in here can relate to what I'm looking for. I guess my friend was right, I may have to go to Europe to find KNPV German Shepherds.

There are plenty of "real hard dogs German Shepherd in North America", but few that have competed in KNPV.


And with the way that you post, most people are just going to ignore your posts - posts that are written in a condescending manner aren't worth reply to.

Google KNPV dogs and find a breeder you like in Holland. That's what your friend should have told you. KNPV is exclusive to that country. Some won't ship the dog so you can go there and test the dog , make sure it's what you want and voila, you have your dog. Most KNPV dogs are going to be Dutchies and Mals. Hope you find the true hardass dog you're looking for!

I'm not in here to argue with anyone because Im a dog lover just like the rest of you. All I was looking for is information on KNPV lines GS. If they don't exist here in North America, then so be it. I also agree with those who say there are plenty of hard dogs in NA, this claim is just too difficult to prove with all kinds of Sport dogs being peddled as REAL Hard dOGS,,CHEERS!!!

 Quote: joe lodovica

"this claim is just too difficult to prove with all kinds of Sport dogs being peddled as REAL Hard dOGS,,CHEERS!!! "

Yes....because doing your research beforehand is just too much work?
Anytime that someone has locked themselves into the thinking that "only < fill in the blank type of dog > is hard, or real, or whatever" has shown that they are either lazy or just have fallen into following whatever the current "hype" of the moment is.


Travel a bit and actually check out if a dog is "hard" enough for you, go to the kennels and work the dogs acting as the decoy, you'll find out if the various claims are true enough.
But to claim that it's "just too difficult" to prove a dogs hardness.....sorry, that's a cop out.

And if you're thinking that only a KNPV titled dog can be "hard" enough......sorry, you need to brush up on what's currently going on in the dog world before you make such a broad statement, because it certainly isn't factual.

Will, you seem to know your stuff when it comes to dogs & I appreciate this, but I'm still dumbfounded in the lack of availability of aformentioned dogs in question. & please don't say that people in here are ignoring the post because if I made a claim that my Dogs are the hardest ones out there, this site would probably crash with all kinds of response & challenges from people who will disagree. I never claimed only KNPV dogs can be hard enough, I'm simply basing my opinion on how hard the dogs are worked in this program & how many hhmm, hhmm, Titled dogs from other Sport are actually run off the training field when they are pushed hard enough. I have done my research on this & I don't have to travel to Holland to know they have some of the best & most sough-after dogs around. This endeavor has already been done by many others before me. We don't see too many Dutch Trainers or Breeders coming to North America to get some of our precious bloodlines. No insult to anyone out there, just stating the facts & if you don't agree with this, then do some research.

What are you looking for Joe? An arguement?
You don't feel a GSD titled (or could be titled) to KNPV can be found in N. America well okay.
So what. The they rarely use GSD's much as a stand alone breed in KNPV any ways.
Even where the 'sport' is practiced.

Joe,
I know that you're not trying to insult anyone, but I was just covering all bases there.

I've been to Holland and done training there, but I also kept my ears and eyes open and I noticed one thing that stood out about KNPV - it's a sport that favors the Mal body style and speed.

For the average size GSD, that many impacts ages them *fast*. Every single KNPV titled GSD that I've encountered ended up with significant orthopedic injuries eventually - and that is very telling.

I've said several times here on this forum that if someone was considering buying a KNPV titles GSD that they needed to do extensive xrays to clear the dog, and I'm talking elbows, shoulders. hips, knees, and complete spine - and I'm totally serious about that.

Also...do you not think that some titles KNPV dogs haven't been run off the field by some of those decoys? It happens in *every* single dog sport.

But I would have no problem saying that the average KNPV titled dog is harder than the average SchH titled dog, as the showline GSDs that get SchH titles for breeding are often weak in my experience.
Many of those dogs could be run off the field by a determined grandmother....

How about a Tiekerhook dog in Ohio?
http://www.tiekerhook.com/index.php/usa-tiekerhook-usa.html

Joe,
You are looking for a strawberry in a blueberry patch. There are GSD's in KNPV but really very few. To ask for GSD KNPV lines you are gonna find that they are the same GSD lines you will find in working line GSD's in Schutzhund really.
If you are looking a GSD that acts like a Dutch KNPV bred malinois X, well that might be difficult although I did notice in the KNPV program a couple people advertising GSD's for the KNPV program.
Since the KNPV appreciates and propagates guard behaviors and SchH diminishes them (just one example of how the programs differ in both genetics and rearing) you are really looking at two different approaches to creating working dogs.
If you appreciate the KNPV why not work with the dogs being specifically bred for it in big enough numbers to get your hands on one? The MalX's or Dutch Shepherd X's ?? GSD's bred for KNPV are really a novelty right now.
Of course there are many GSD's that can do the KNPV, but why would a GSD person even bothr with a sport that isn't a pre req for the korung (kkl) for the GSD? Why would you train a great GSD in a program where it dead ends with Hollands yearly championship when there are bigger venues to play like the FCI Ch., the WUSV, as well as the individual countries championship? It really doesn't make sense unless you are dutch, and love both the GSD and the KNPV.