Hi

I have a 2 years and 7 months German Shepherd.

I am busy training for Schutzhund 1 with him, however I have run into the following problem with his escape in manwork:

He tends to bite underneath the sleeve or slightly from behind, above the elbow during the escape. This is only during the escape.

The confrontation in the hide is strong and full.

Could you please support with ideas as more people do not seem to have the answer to this answer and state that they have never came accross anything like this?

Your valuable imput will be appreciated.

Hi, Edward,

I am bumping this, and letting you know that Sunday is a very popular training day (where I am heading too in a couple of hours, into the pouring rain and mud ), so many training questions like this are addressed more on non-weekend days.

I thought I would tell you this because I see that this is your first post and didn't want you to feel ignored.

Possibly the decoy's fault?

This is the 2 year old?

Sounds like a targeting issue & a dog that will get 'dirty' if it can. I had this issue with my female. We put her on a long line so we could control her bite & then set her up to 'target' the sleeve center & rewarded her with the bite when she went for the center of the sleeve. When she went to get dirty she didn't get a bite. Since biting is like crack to her, she would be careful where she bit. Fixed it for the most part, but she will still get dirty, on occasion, if the decoy doesn't show a strong enough presence & present the sleeve properly.

Well, for starters the helper can make more of a presentation of the sleeve during the escape - keeping the elbow still locked against their side, but flexing the sleeve more "outward" as they run.
Many dogs find this an easy target and if your dog will respond to this "offer", just practice it until it becomes muscle memory ( at least 30 to 40 repetitions ).

Next, if the dog still does not bite the desired target area, try taking an emptied and well cleaned bleach bottle and trimming it into a barrel around the sleeve above the elbow ( the area of problem as you indicated ) and secure it in place with duct tape - most dogs dislike the feel of plastic like that in their mouths as opposed to jute, and the dog will often shift their bite lower then.

Let us know how that works.

it's hard to say without seeing it, but i'd go back to targeting.

make sure you're setting your dog up right in relation to the helper. Think more in terms of a triangle and your dog "meeting" the helper rather than a straight line and chasing the helper.

also as Will said about giving an easier target to start, take it a step further and put that target out in front of the helper so the dog learns to target in front of them (think triangle) and slowly work it back. That way they always target to the front and can adjust back. When they target as a chase in a straight line they can't adjust to anything, they just bite what's there.

Hi All

Thank you very much for all your suggestions!

I'll report how things are working.

Thanks, Will for adding the more technical part of this answer. My decoy did say that he changed some of the ways of presenting the sleeve on the escape in order for her to target properly. But initially we started with her targeting correctly on the sleeve at the blind. Then moved on to the escape where he presented the sleeve a little bit differently to keep her 'on target'. I just didn't know exactly how he did that part. But I do now.

 Quote: eric read

it's hard to say without seeing it, but i'd go back to targeting.

make sure you're setting your dog up right in relation to the helper. Think more in terms of a triangle and your dog "meeting" the helper rather than a straight line and chasing the helper.

also as Will said about giving an easier target to start, take it a step further and put that target out in front of the helper so the dog learns to target in front of them (think triangle) and slowly work it back. That way they always target to the front and can adjust back. When they target as a chase in a straight line they can't adjust to anything, they just bite what's there.

Eric,
I've seen problems develop from placing the sleeve out in front of the helper instead of to the side - sometimes the dog will become a "wrap around" biter, and trip up the helpers when they're half wrapped around the decoy trying to bite the sleeve.

The problems that I've seen from this position have resulted in injuries to both dogs and the decoys ( I've seen both happen, once resulting in a severe back injury to the dog resulting in its work career ending, and once with a decoy blowing out his knee, resulting in a year off of training following surgery ).

It's just not worth the risk, in my opinion.

Hi all

Just an update:

My helper started using a right-hand sleeve and that seems to have made his targetting look better, but it's probably not ideal as most helpers use the left-hand sleeve.

I purchased the following arm and sleeve cover:
Sleeve Cover (inside and outside plastic): http://www.dogsportgear.com/sleeve_cover_Plastic.htm

Sleeve: http://www.dogsportgear.com/Center_bite_sleeve_9506.html


Would you recommend that I practice the following with the above purchased sleeve and sleeve cover myself with about 4 bites per day?:

1. Put the dog in a down stay.
2. Then walk about 20 paces out.
3. Hold the sleeve and make the dog run towards me.
4a. If the dog bites in the center, then let him win the sleeve.
4b. If the dog does not bite in the centre and I see him going towards the left elbow, quickly turn around and do not present him with a sleeve to bite on.


The helper thought that he the dog didn't have confidence and/or was playing dirty, therefore the dog is doing the elbow bite. However, he does the same with me (his owner), so it can't be that he doesn't have confidence or playing dirty with his owner. Is it perhaphs a habbit that developed and need to be corrected by repition (i.e. 4 correct bites per day)


What are your opinions regarding this?

I feel that I don't want him to have success when he does not bite in the centre or in an acceptable position on the sleeve.

Your advice with greatly be appreciated.

Thanks!