Not just on this board but lately there seems to be an attitude that you almost have to know the secret handshake in order to qualify for a working line dog if you have not owned one before.

I have read threads on several boards thinking that if I had read them before I had gotten my Pepper, I might have a house full of poodles or something right about now.


What's everyone thoughts on this?

Hmmmm,
When someone asks me about it, a friend or a wayward stranger, my first question to them is what kind of experience do they have with dogs. That above everything else amost always decides for me how I advise the person on perhaps obtaining a GSD (straight ahead showlines don't exist to me).

If they've no or little experience with dogs at all, then it's totally a matter of gut feelings about the persons mettle and commitment. A little harder to gualify.
I'd hardly ever advise a GSD to a first time dog owner for the same reasons I'd think a few other breeds an ill choice for a newbie to the dog world.

What are your experiences on that front Betty? You must have a dog now and then that would definitely be a good match for a neophite in dog speak.

 Quote: randy allen

...then it's totally a matter of ...the persons mettle and commitment.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

When so many people can't even be bothered to train and work with fairly easy pet dogs, I have a hard time seeing them being able to be successful with dogs from working lines, especially the higher drive ones.

I think it's critical for breeders to use great care in matching the right pup with the owner. I think responsible, experienced breeders do a great job with this. I think a lot of breeders who don't fall into the responsible category, don't.

Do I think a novice can be successful with a high drive dog? Yes. But, the commitment has to be there, and the recognition that you can't take a day off just because you don't feel like training and exercising and supervising your dog.

Since drive levels vary widely even among working lines, matching the right pup with the right owner becomes such an important part of the equation...IMO. Sadly, looking at all the dogs in shelters and breed rescues tells me that there are many breeders who aren't doing this, and even more people who are not assessing their own commitment levels honestly.

leih

When you were learnig to shoot, did you start with say, a BB gun, moved up to a .22 later and demonstrated the basic knowledge of firearms safety or did you just grab an M60 and put it on Rock and Roll?

 Quote:

What are your experiences on that front Betty? You must have a dog now and then that would definitely be a good match for a neophite in dog speak.

Every litter. I have a little girl in my current litter that so far is showing excellent drive and nerve and has sought out humans from the minute her eyes have opened. She will leave food to come up and be petted and I see a pack drive/eagerness to please in her that is exceptional in my opinion.

My number one priority in placing her will to be try and find a home where she has the potential of being someone's "heart" dog. That is if I don't hold her back.

There is an 11 year old handler doing respectable bite work with one of my pups from Raya. She has done all the training with the dog and even removed walking privledges from family members that have repeatedly forgot to use the prong on a walk with a dog with high cat drive in a cat infested neighborhood.

I will take more risks with someone close to me, where I can hopefully train with them and moniter the situation. Locals get free club membership for a year with a pup and as long as they will avail themself of that I feel pretty comforable.

My boys will not generally go to someone as a first dog. There is a streak of dominance in the bloodline, coupled with the possibility of HA with unfair corrections, that make them totally unacceptable for a lot of people.

 Quote: Dennis Jones

When you were learnig to shoot, did you start with say, a BB gun, moved up to a .22 later and demonstrated the basic knowledge of firearms safety or did you just grab an M60 and put it on Rock and Roll?

Good point Dennis.

 Quote: Dennis Jones

When you were learnig to shoot, did you start with say, a BB gun, moved up to a .22 later and demonstrated the basic knowledge of firearms safety or did you just grab an M60 and put it on Rock and Roll?

A .44 magnum rifle, but I digress....

I think some folks have a good amount of natural self-assurance and are a quick study, so It's hard to generalize. There are also individual dogs within some lines that are softer/more forgiving than some.

At the same time, I wouldn't recommend a drivey working line dog to a complete newb unless they had done a little background research around what to expect, and had some resources in place (good trainer, club, etc.)

I think it's important for breeders to ask a prospective buyer some direct questions about their lifestyle (and their lifestyle to that point is more revealing than what they 'hope' to do once they have a dog;-), what they are looking for and what they expect from their dog. Sometimes these conversations can reveal that the prospective new owner should be looking for an entirely different breed.

 Quote:

Since drive levels vary widely even among working lines, matching the right pup with the right owner becomes such an important part of the equation...IMO. Sadly, looking at all the dogs in shelters and breed rescues tells me that there are many breeders who aren't doing this, and even more people who are not assessing their own commitment levels honestly.

Unfortunately this statement is all too true.

Betty, I think that this is an excellent thread, first of all.

I think that Dennis's analogy is really spot on. I never heard it put that way, but I can say that without knowing it, that this was in fact, how I viewed the working line GSD.

I got my first GSD, before knowing about Leerburg, so my knowledge of showline vs. working line was extremely limited.
But my general impression was that the working line, could be entirely way too much dog for me right out of the gate so to speak.
My second GSD has also come from showlines, but more because he was a long coat and I fell in love with his sweet personality when I saw him at the breeder's.

Both times, this breeder did approve of each of these dogs for me, knowing that I was a novice dog trainer.

What I can add is that since coming upon this site, and reading all the info, along with the knowledgeable people here, it has opened my eyes on so many levels. I would say my learning curve is off the charts, in fact! LOL!

I can tell you that for me, as I am a work in progress,a student if you will. I have so much to learn and it seems necessary to learn with a softer dog(s) at first. But I hope that one day I want to own a dog for personal protection and when I get to the level, where I know that I could indeed handle a working line, that would be my dream.

I wish I could stay, but I am off to the Derm Vet for my female who has bad allergies.
This brings up a whole different thread for me....
more about this later.

 Quote: Betty Waldron

I might have a house full of poodles or something right about now.

My standard poodle has taken much more effort on my part than my very laid back showline GSD.

Which I suppose underscores the notion that IMO, it's not all that meaningful to talk about dog breeds or varieties in sweeping generalities. They aren't brand-name products where one example is identical to the next. Dogs are individuals. And they don't always read and follow the breed standards.

I love that working line GSD enthusiasts are such lovers of their favorite breed and type. And I think it's appropriate that any breed community is vigilant about who breeds and owns their dogs. That's why breed communities exist. I just wish that being enthusiastic for one kind of dog didn't often go along with denigrating other types. There are lots of breeds of dogs I wouldn't want to own-- but I still allow that for somebody else in the world, that's the perfect type for them.