Hi, my rott and bernese are on raw.
I have been told by my trainer that i need to really work om my rotts cardio fitness as he tires quickley, so have set us the goal of going for AD, he is SchH2. he gets maybe 3 miles aday walking off lead at the moment.
I thought maybe a probelm was he is lacking long term energy... am i way off the mark?
am i missing something in his diet?

i feed food from Landywoods.co.uk, so tripe and chicken, beef and kideny, chicken wings, backs.minced meat mix, 2 meals a day, 454g meat per meal plus extras
big RMB's from the butcher
sardines, eggs, veg (carrot, potato, broccoli, cabbage, spinach, boiled then mushed up added to meat) gett added to meals.
I use a additive, Green Ark green food supplelemnt http://www.landywoods.co.uk/supplements.html
and a muti vitamin tablet every other day, same that i take.

My question is where do i put in carbs... grains. i was thinking of adding the cerial mix from this site.http://www.landywoods.co.uk/green_ark.html
maybe 1 meal of this every two days...?

I switch to raw after getting advice from here when my rott had stomach problems on kibble, best thing i ever did. Now i think i need to fine tune and hope you folks in the know can again guide me.I am unsure of grains... so is this mix suitable, esp as he was loose on kibble.

Thankyou,

Andrew

Dogs don't need or utalize grains (carbs). They are not like us. Dogs use fat like we use carbs for energy. I wouldn't overload him on fat cause that can cause other problems like pancrieatic issues, but just make sure that the RMBs & muscle meats have enough fat in them. I usually feed ground meat in 80/20 fat ratio but also 70/30 at times, in addition to RMBs. I feed dark meat often (like chicken leg Qtrs for part of meals, because the dark meat has a higher fat ratio & it is a good bone to meat ratio for a meal. I actually cut off some of the skin & excess fat if I feel it is too much for my dogs. If you feed too much of the skin or fat especially in the beginning you can cause GI upsets. I don't usually feed breast meat except if I feed whole chicken & then they get all parts over the course of a couple of meals. Alot of it is trial & error as to how much is too much for each individual dog. JMO & what I often do.

These are all carbs:
carrot, potato, broccoli, cabbage, spinach, boiled then mushed up added to meat

No more than that is needed. (The white potato is unnecessary and not particularly desirable. I'd stick to mostly green produce and some berries sometimes for treats.)

Grains are not something a canid has evolved to process. They are included in kibble for cheapness. They are cheap; meat is not.

Why do you think he needs the multi-vit? (Just curious.) Please double check that it is not a multi-min also, and if it is, please don't give it.

Have you looked at the Leerburg site's pages on raw diets? Want some links?

What does he do when he tires out? Out of breath, panting, stopping training to go lay down?

Andrew, I bet if you edit the title of this post to 'Conditioning my Rottie', you will get some additonal responses. The title of this post is a bit misleading, I think.

(and perhaps not too relevent to the issue of why your rottie's endurance isn't where your training thinks it needs to be)

Hi.
There is just so much conflicting info out there and it gets so technical. i try to add a variety but want to make sure he is getting what he needs.
I was also thinking of probiotics but there so expensive and making my own, well i just dont have the time.

He has always been a heavy panter in protection work. helpers not used to rotts always comment on it but the rott people say its not unusall.
apparently he tires too quickly, the helper/trainer says he can feel him tiring on the sleeve....
the picture i see though is just a dog that pants heavily yet he will never stop fighting or training, he just slobbers everywhere.
so i have taken to start biking with him to go for his AD. I want to make sure he is getting the right food he needs, esp under more pyshical pressure.

Connie they are cod liver and multi vit one a day capsules. I give one every two or three days. i give them just incase i am missing something What do you think of the green ark powder supplement. it contains kelp, alfaifa, nettle, parsley, one teasponn a day over their food. Sound right or just a gimick?

Thanks

Please link us to this:

"Connie they are cod liver and multi vit one a day capsules. I give one every two or three days."

Fish liver oil is pretty much useless in tiny amounts and dangerously high in fat-soluble vitamins in higher, therapeutic doses. You want fish body, not liver, oil. JMO. I feel very strongly about not giving fish liver oil in the kind of dose that I want to give long-chain Omega 3s from marine sources.

Probiotics: easy and inexpensive. Unsweetened unflavored live-culture yogurt.

 Quote: andrew rowley

.... He has always been a heavy panter in protection work. helpers not used to rotts always comment on it but the rott people say its not unusal ...

I hope someone with more Rottie experience (Steve?) will comment, but since they are bracheocephalic, would panty-type breathing be more common with them than with long-nose dogs?

I'm not making little of what might be a health issue. Just asking experienced Rottie owners. I know that my rescue bracheocephalic dogs (Pugs) have very different breathing from the GSD.

http://www.landywoods.co.uk/supplements.html

The top product on that list would probably never enter my house.

The second one, if it's inexpensive, has pretty good stuff in it. If it's expensive, then you can replicate it very easily.

You got a pic of him, Andrew? Vet says he is sound in all aspects physically?

If you are feeding a variety of foods, in roughly their proper amounts of meat, bone, and organ then I don't see anything wrong with the diet.

If he can tolerate it digestively, you could up the raw fats in his diet.

 Quote: andrew rowley

cod liver and multi vit one a day capsules. I give one every two or three days. i give them just incase i am missing something What do you think of the green ark powder supplement. it contains kelp, alfaifa, nettle, parsley, one teasponn a day over their food. Sound right or just a gimick?

Thanks

Given that there is variety in the diet, and that the rough guidelines for meat, bone and organs is adhered to, I don't see much reason for any of the above supplements. ESPECIALLY cod liver oil. It is one of the easier ones to over-do. Just feed liver in the proper amounts given for a raw diet and consider that base covered and stop the cod liver oil.

Same with the multi.

I guess it could be hard to do, but over supplementing is as big a problem as a lacking diet.

Variety, and staying within the guidelines given for a raw diet are plenty.

The two things that should be supplemented are fish BODY oil and vitamin E. The modern diet, due to farming practices, is lacking in omega 3 EFA's. Fish oil is the best way to supplement that into the diet. Vitamin E is used by the body to protect the omega 3 EFA's, therefore, it only makes sense to supp. it, too.

Everything else is covered.:smile: