I have a few more questions on the groundwork program. I'm not sure if I should start a new post each day or each time I have a question or if I should post it in one of my last posts??? Anyway, I am on day 3 of the groundwork program. When the dogs have been whining or barking in the crate, I will toss a blanket over the crate so they cannot see me. Sometimes I say "NO" when they whine or bark. Should I not do that? Should I just completely ignore instead of saying NO? The NO will make them stop. Sometimes they stop for hours or sometimes just a few minutes. Everything else seems to be going okay. This mornings walk was by far the BEST walks I have EVER been on with both of the dogs in the two to three years I have had them. Even my male walked right by my side for a 30 min walk this morning! That has never happened! He is panting a little in his crate and still whines a bit. Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Marc Mathews
New Haven, CT

Its probably better in the future to just post on the same thread. Its just better for organization, plus it will help other board members figure out what advice o offer because they will get the full story. When there is a new post updated in a thread it goes right back to the top of the list.

Its probably better to just ignore them when they are acting up in the crate. Even a NO is enough for some dogs that are seeking attention.

Its great that you are seeing progress. It happens so quickly when you use the GW ideas! I wasn't having any major problems with my dog, just the beginnings of very pushy behavior. I saw such an improvement in two days of using this way of thinking, it was amazing. Plus, I can see that she is already even more bonded to me. Its awesome

Are you working from he DVD or the e book?

So today is day 4 of the groundwork program. I thought I was making progress as my walks w/ both dogs were great yesterday. Although I am typing this entry w/ about 1/2 hour sleep!!! My male was whining and panting from 11:00 p.m. last night until right now at 7:30 a.m.!! I brought him out to pee and poop last night, he peed. I took him out a few min ago and when I brought him back in...it continued. Is this just his protest?? Help please. I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing, yet his whining and panting is taking its toll on my wife and I. We even moved his crate out of the bedroom and into the living room at about 1 a.m....it continued. We closed out bedroom door and put a blanket over his crate as well!I couldn't sleep partly because I could hear him and partly I feel really bad. I'm sure he is confused and probably scared. He has been a spoiled brat for 3 years and I'm sure 4 days is not enough to change that, but I just want to double check and get some more feedback. I have stopped saying "no" when he whines and have just been ignoring it...but I must be honest, it is driving us crazy! They are both rescue pits and I'm wondering if this first stage of the groundwork program is going to take much longer than I had originally anticipated!

Marc Mathews
New Haven, CT

Marc,

I went back and read your initial posts before you began the ground work program and see that your male dog was acting dog aggressive when on walks with the female. Was the dog not respectful of you in the home and is this why you decided to institute the ground work, or was he good at minding you but when on walks began acting up?

I'm just wondering if the ground work program is needed, and it very well may be, or if working on the issue from other angles would be appropriate. Again, this would be if the dog IS respectful of you in the home but has other issues while walking.

The only thing I can suggest about the whining is that the dogs can probably pick up on your frustration (understandable) and are feeding off of that...

I'm hoping some of the folks who are far more experienced in training issues will chime in and give advice as to if the ground work program is what is needed in this situation or whether other training solutions are approriate. Hang in there!

Marc, as you have figured out, saying 'No!' when the dog is whining has just prolonged the issue of whining in the crate.

If the dog is now panting and whining, it indicates a certain level of stress, and you may need to take a different approach with this dog.

First of all, is the dog going willingly into the crate?

Secondly, are you familiar with marker training?

Thirdly, have you been letting the dog out of the crate when he's whining?

If you could answer these questions, some advice will be forthcoming!

I will go read your other thread, in the meantime...

OK, so you are changing their food and starting the groundwork program at the same time?

Has your male started eating yet?

I did not change their food yet. They are on their regular diet and he did eat yesterday. He goes willingly into the crate most of the time. Sometimes he hesitates and one time I had to physically put him in because he tried to get away. Also, this morning on the walk, he did a driveby pooping which looked like diarrhea. I'm guessing he is working himself up so much he is making himself sick.I have read some on marker training. In the past he listens to me, but only when he wants to. I'll have to say sit two or three times before he does or with the prong collar on, I'll say sit and if he doesn't, I'll give a little pop with a "no" and he will sit. I DO NOT let him out when he is whining. I now have stopped saying no and just ignore him. When it continues I put a blanket over the crate. Hope this helps. Thank you all so much. I love these guys to death and just want to do the right thing. My wife and I want to have children in the future so I want to establish pack structure now. Also, they are pits and we all know how they get a bad wrap in the media and w/ most peoples ignorant opinions. I just don't want anything to happen to continue that trend

OK, I think it's a good move to delay the food change until your pack structure program is in place.

As Barbara mentioned, if you are only having problems on walks and not in the home, you may want to modify what you are doing somewhat. ie maybe ease up on the crate time.

The separate walks are a great idea, and sounds like they are doing better on the walks now.

If you can incorporate some marker training into your daily routine, you will see good results in the obedience department.

If you need help getting started with marker training, start a new thread. For your pack structure questions, stick with this thread so that there is some continuity to the responses.

Can you outline your daily routine with the dogs, as you are doing it now?
ie how much exercise and what kind, how much time in the crate, etc...

It does sound like he is probably stressed out. Was he crate trained when you first got him? Did you crate train him yourself?

I leave an old bedspread made of a light fabric over the crate all the time. My dog seems to prefer it, she settles in nicely. I still sometimes reward her with treats for going in. Its very important that the dog sees it as a positive place to be.

Also, are both dog crates in the same room? If they are I would try separating them, in case the dogs are setting each other off. If he two dogs are normally like two peas in a pod it might be stressful for them to be able to see each other but not interact.

Its smart of you to realize that its important to get your dogs under control. Dogs of a breed that is considered "scary" to people need to be better than other dogs. You are doing the right thing by considering that what you do with your dogs can be part of creating a more positive public perception of the breed as a whole.

Okay, only 4 days in. I wake up in the morning, have a cup of coffee, then I take the male out to pee. I bring him in, put him back in the crate and then take the female out to pee. Then I take the male for a walk, about a 30 minute walk. I bring him in and take the female on the walk, again about 30 minutes. P.S. he is still panting and whining as of right now and now the female started whining as well. It sounds like I'm torturing these dogs! I take them for a second walk later in the day which lasts about 40 minutes and I take them out to go pee or poop probably ten times a day. This is a full time job! I didn't want to take them out of the crates yet cause Ed said on the DVD that they need to be calm and submissive before being allowed on a leash in the house tied to me or the chair I am in. How can I change up my routine? The only problems I have had in the house besides him haveing selective listening is I used to let him up on the couch and he always sits on me and has to be under blankets...weird. Sometimes when the cats come around and he is on me, he will growl at them. I would tell him "no" and kick him off. So that is why I figured this program was best. Also as far as being aggressive on walks one time instead of making a correction when his hair started to stand up and he was getting excited due to another dog behind a fence I let him walk towards it to really see what type of reaction he would have and he lunged at the fence, butting heads w/ the dog on the other side and he started to bite at the fence! Again, I cannot thank you all enough for your input!