I watched the Pack Structure and Dominant Dog DVD's over the past few days and learned a lot to help me with Benedict ( 11 month old GSD) Benny knows all the basic obedience, is crate trained, and well behaved in the house, in that he follows me from room to room, lays quietly at my feet. I crate him when I have to leave him, because without supervision he will shred toilet paper ( don’t ask me how I know) and probably get into mischief because he is an adolescent.

Benny is good with people and most dogs, but he is very aggressive towards dogs that show aggression to him, and to skate boarders and wants to chase cats. He is gentle with our house cats, so it is just the thrill of the chase. Benny’s aggression does not seem to be fear based, but macho posturing, and with skate boarders, prey aggression, and with the cats; prey and play.

Today I read the great articles Ed has on training with markers, which I have done since I got Benny. I use clickers and “yes” to mark behaviors. Ed , in his article supplied what was missing in the clicker class we took, which was that for dogs like Benny there needs to be corrections.
I need some help in how to relate advice from the Dominant Dog DVD, with the Marker training. For walks where I know we may face lots of triggers I am using the prong with the Dominate Dog collar. When I see an approaching trigger I move Benny to the side, play the LAT game, turn him the other way, and mark and treat when he focuses on me. When Benny lunges aggressively I either give him a strong prong correction or lift his front legs off the ground. I only weigh 98 and Benny weighs 85 so my strongest prong correction is probably only a level 5. Benny reacts to the correction a bit surprised, like I distracted him, but does not seem upset. He reacts the same way to being lifted with the Dominant collar for a few seconds. As soon as I put him down he starts lunging again, but by then the trigger has moved past us, and if not, I just remove him from the situation.

When we are training with markers in a place with little or no distraction Benny just wears a Sense ation harness, or if in a secure area no collar or harness at all. We do a lot of focus work in the house. Benny hardly knows the differece between training and play!

Heres my confusion Some of the things in the Dominate Dog DVD seem to conflict with the Training with Markers article, but I was very encouraged by Ed saying that Marker Training is good for Dominant Dogs.
I would love some insights on how to combine Marker Training with a the corrections of a prong and Dominant Dog collar. This is what is missing from our Clicker Training class which forbid the prong.

From what I have read on here it seems that the thought is that once you are confident that the dog is trained, and has been trained in different environments, that a correction is necessary if the dog is blowing you off. Pack behaviors also warrant a correction.

I would definitely suggest the "Theory of corrections" podcast. It really clears up the issue nicely. The Basic Obedience DVD is really good, too.

Hi Debbie,

I'm a bit confused and to be honest, a bit concerned, that a week ago in another post about your pup, using the dominate dog collar and hanging this dog at this age was strongly discouraged. Some very good information was offered on how to work him through this, but I didn't get the impression it was something that would be cleared up in a week. Have things escallated in the past week and what about the advice is not working for you?

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/267841/page/0/fpart/2

 Quote: Barbara Schuler

Hi Debbie,

I'm a bit confused and to be honest, a bit concerned, that a week ago in another post about your pup, using the dominate dog collar and hanging this dog at this age was strongly discouraged. Some very good information was offered on how to work him through this, but I didn't get the impression it was something that would be cleared up in a week. Have things escallated in the past week and what about the advice is not working for you?


It is all working. I don't expect anything thing to be cleared up in a week. I only lifted him for a few seconds when he was about to pull me off my feet to chase a ca, and at an aggressive dog, who her was lunging a. I am mostly working in very controlled environment with markers.
I am just confused after watching the Dominate Dog DVD and reading the Marker Training Articles about what level of correction is needed for us. When walking him where there may be triggers should I use the Sensation or the prong and Dominate dog collar?

singlehttp://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/267841/page/0/fpart/2

I suggest re-watching the pack structure video.
Ed points out in this video that the social isolation stage take a minimum of a week.
During this week you are to keep the dog reallly well exercised.
If you lock a dog in a crate for weeks, and don't exercise him...(at least 3 walks a day of at least 30 min each), the dog wont even be able to hear what you are saying to him because he will be so cranked up.
The dog won't listen to you regarding the dog aggression because he hasn't been through the pack structure program.
This takes time.
One of the beauties of this program is that it cuts down on the direct confrontation aspect of training regarding dominant dogs.
You don't confront the dog during this time, don't pick a fight you can't win right now.
Give the program time, and the very fact that you are in controll of the dog's environment will IN TIME show the dog that you are in control of him and his environment.
Work on marker training in your home in a distraction free environment AFTER the social isolation period is over.
As Ed says, in the beginning even being allowed out of the crate dragging a leash in the yard is a privilege.
Most people here will say, that they have to exercise the dog, and that exposes the dog to other dogs, creating a situation where the owner has to confront the dog.
Walk it where or when there won't be confrontations for a while. Set it up for success.
This period doesn't last all that long.
I would really watch the video again and take notes, and then you can ask specific questions.
I also have the same questions as Barbara....What isn't working?

Why do you think you have a dominant dog?

 Quote: Debbie Greco

For walks where I know we may face lots of triggers I am using the prong with the Dominate Dog collar. When I see an approaching trigger I move Benny to the side, play the LAT game, turn him the other way, and mark and treat when he focuses on me. When Benny lunges aggressively I either give him a strong prong correction or lift his front legs off the ground. I only weigh 98 and Benny weighs 85 so my strongest prong correction is probably only a level 5. Benny reacts to the correction a bit surprised, like I distracted him, but does not seem upset. He reacts the same way to being lifted with the Dominant collar for a few seconds. As soon as I put him down he starts lunging again, but by then the trigger has moved past us, and if not, I just remove him from the situation.

Debbie, I went back and read the information in your prior post and the links Connie provided on desensitizing the dog little by little to the areas/situations which cause him to amp up. It seemed that that information was appropriate for what you are going through... Have you had a chance to practice any of those techniques at a distance from the other dogs or skateboarders?

 Quote:

Benny is good with people and most dogs, but he is very aggressive towards dogs that show aggression to him, and to skate boarders and wants to chase cats. He is gentle with our house cats, so it is just the thrill of the chase. Benny’s aggression does not seem to be fear based, but macho posturing, and with skate boarders, prey aggression, and with the cats; prey and play.

That sounds like a perfectly normal, high drive, confident adolescent dog. In fact, my sweet submissive but high drive 15 m/o dog would do most of those if she had a chance. Why do you think he's dominant?

Symptoms of a dominate dog:
tearing up toilete paper
chasing cats
reactive towards other dogs
pulling on walks
not paying attention to handlers commands

jeez Al don't you know anything?

LOL