Michel Karsouny wrote 04/02/2010 03:58 AM Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup #271419 - 04/02/2010 03:58 AM
Michel Karsouny Webboard User Reg: 03-07-2010 Posts: 178 Loc: Beirut Offline	Hi guys, Getting Karly back from the Kennel where he s spent the last 10 days. Last time i saw him he was starting to get better & fatter. i ve decided i wanna switch to raw once he s back. questions: 1. m gonna start off with the puppy diet http://leerburg.com/feedpups.htm (waiting for the 2 recommended books coming end of april); how should i introduce it? 2. what s the dosage for vit E (SG 400IU) , vit C 60mg & Salmon oil (softgels 1000mg) 3. is there a nutritional substitute for alfalfa/kelp mix? 4. at that point, i dont have to feed 3x a day right? he s 5 1/2 months .. that s it for now! m so excited! Karly 16/10/09
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Tracy Collins wrote 04/02/2010 01:29 PM Re: Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup [Re: Michel Karsouny ] #271460 - 04/02/2010 01:29 PM
Tracy Collins Webboard User Reg: 10-09-2008 Posts: 1917 Loc: St. Louis, Missouri Offline	I'll offer advice on a couple of your questions: 1. if you mean how to transition to the new raw diet from the old one--I would just switch. Yesterday he ate kibble. Today and from now on, he eats raw. However--introduce the raw foods absolutely one at a time. You will not be offering a full array of variety right away, and that's okay. He's not going to be nutrient defficient with limited variety for just a couple of weeks. Gradual introduction of new foods will make the transition easier. Chicken parts would be the way I'd start. But just chicken (backs are ideal--or whole chickens cut up into pieces--whatever you have access to.) Introduce new items one at a time over the course of a couple of weeks. And GO EASY on liver or other organ meats. Small doses. 4. At that age my puppies all ate two raw meals a day. Good luck. Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/02/2010 02:05 PM Re: Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup [Re: Tracy Collins ] #271466 - 04/02/2010 02:05 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Ditto: One item at a time. Especially with this dog, that means one item until you see perfect poop, then one more item, and so on. What are you going to use as RMBs? Chicken backs? Or chicken quarters, maybe? With this dog, they would be skinned and the globs of fat removed for the first couple of feedings. This dog should probably get small frequent meals until poop is perfect and most of the ingredients are included. I'd be super-careful about no huge meals of new foods with this dog, and I'd be very slow with my organ meat (and even muscle meat) additions.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/02/2010 02:09 PM Re: Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #271467 - 04/02/2010 02:09 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	PS I'd skip C, alfalfa, and kelp for now with this dog, but for the fish oil and E, we need his weight. (Fish oil and E are added pretty soon, and this dog's gut in particular needs the anti-inflammation benefits even more than other dogs do.) "at that point, i dont have to feed 3x a day right? he s 5 1/2 months .. " For this dog, I'd go with three meals just for a bit until everything is introduced and all is well, if you possibly can. This guy needs no gut upheaval at all.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/02/2010 02:12 PM Re: Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup [Re: Tracy Collins ] #271469 - 04/02/2010 02:12 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Tracy Collins --introduce the raw foods absolutely one at a time. You will not be offering a full array of variety right away, and that's okay. He's not going to be nutrient defficient with limited variety for just a couple of weeks. Gradual introduction of new foods will make the transition easier. Chicken parts would be the way I'd start. But just chicken (backs are ideal--or whole chickens cut up into pieces--whatever you have access to.) The most important point here, for this dog in particular.
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Robert Kirkwood wrote 04/02/2010 02:55 PM Re: Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #271478 - 04/02/2010 02:55 PM
Robert Kirkwood Webboard User Reg: 12-23-2008 Posts: 252 Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada Offline	When i put my dogs back on raw i didn't wean him off kibble, One day i just switched it and added ingredients one by one starting with chicken and then i started slowly adding broccoli, cucumber and so on. I had zero adverse affects after switching out right from kibble to raw. it will be very exciting. Since my dogs like yours knew raw food when i gave them kibble they would just stare at it and then stare at me, before begrudgingly eating this poor excuse for a meal, no they can barely contain themselves at meal time.
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Michel Karsouny wrote 04/02/2010 04:33 PM Re: Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup [Re: Robert Kirkwood ] #271494 - 04/02/2010 04:33 PM
Michel Karsouny Webboard User Reg: 03-07-2010 Posts: 178 Loc: Beirut Offline	ok great! 1. m gonna start with chicken necks. is that ok? 3x a day, then add (1-2 days later the Vit E and Salmon oil). 2. as soon as BM is firm, start adding ground meat 1meal/day (4-6oz) 3. wait till stool s firm, then switch to 2x/day ground meat (8oz), THEN add Vegetables, THEN vit C. (m just following the puppy diet link http://leerburg.com/feedpups.htm) will start diversifying bit by bit after m confident his stool is fine and he s doing well on the diet. All that said, when introducing all of this, i just stop the kibble completely? kennel mixes RC with the ground meat (Connie you know the deal with the pup's stool)... would some yogurt help ease in the transition? Karly 16/10/09
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/02/2010 05:44 PM Re: Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup [Re: Michel Karsouny ] #271509 - 04/02/2010 05:44 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	No, no kibble with the raw. Plain (unflavored and unsweetened) yogurt can definitely be one of the first additions after the peeled chicken necks.
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Michel Karsouny wrote 04/03/2010 05:14 AM Re: Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #271596 - 04/03/2010 05:14 AM
Michel Karsouny Webboard User Reg: 03-07-2010 Posts: 178 Loc: Beirut Offline	i ve been hearing that comment over and over again: "y not cook the meat just a bit to eliminate bacteria?" (i know enzymes and aminos would be altered, but dont we eat meat cooked as well? same thing with feeding raw eggs for instance...) extra: From "Foods you should avoid feeding your dog" article http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=1030 "Raw eggs: Contain an enzyme called avidin, which decreases the absorption of biotin (a B vitamin). This can lead to skin and hair coat problems. Raw eggs may also contain Salmonella." Karly 16/10/09
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/03/2010 10:11 AM Re: Starting with Raw for 5 1/2months pup [Re: Michel Karsouny ] #271605 - 04/03/2010 10:11 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: michel karsouny i ve been hearing that comment over and over again: "y not cook the meat just a bit to eliminate bacteria?" (i know enzymes and aminos would be altered, but dont we eat meat cooked as well? same thing with feeding raw eggs for instance...) extra: From "Foods you should avoid feeding your dog" article http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=1030 "Raw eggs: Contain an enzyme called avidin, which decreases the absorption of biotin (a B vitamin). This can lead to skin and hair coat problems. Raw eggs may also contain Salmonella." Is your question about cooking the meat? You can't feed cooked bones to bones (dangerous). And a boneless meat diet is a nutritional disaster for a dog. As for cooking for humans because of salmonella and other food pathogens, we are not dogs. If you want to read up on why the dog's GI system is completely different from ours, I can give you material. As far as raw eggs go, I think giving raw eggs should be quite limited because of the avidin issue. (Turns out that the long-held belief that the yolk provided enough biotin to make up for what the avidin in the white binds isn't accurate.) There have been detailed threads here on the topic. http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=12&Number=251060&Searchpage=1&Main=24177&Words=avidin+Connie+Sutherland&topic=0&Search=true#Post251044 Did you order the two paperbacks LB carries on raw feeding, by Schultze and MacDonald?
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