In Focused Heeling DVD ME says that "we start leash pressure work when we've done the foundation training in bitework". How does this affect walking the pup on a leash? He pulls or self-corrects with a prong - that's leash pressure, isn't it?

I consider the so called 'self correction' unfair and unproductive in the long run.

Dogs do not self correct, correction is your job.
Stay engaged with the dog.

M&M Enterprises.

 Quote: randy allen

I consider the so called 'self correction' unfair and unproductive in the long run.

Dogs do not self correct, correction is your job.
Stay engaged with the dog.

M&M Enterprises.

I agree with Randy...

Don’t worry about it. I used a puppy prong to teach no pulling (there was no “self-correcting&rdquo on regular walks under M.E. guidance and had no problems when it came time for leash pressure exercises, like he said, it is a separate exercise all together when the time is right.

As a side note, pay extra attention to the part on teaching the turns, I bet I watched that part a 100 times last weekend.
And a free hint, practice the turns without a dog, it helps (or I am uncoordinated) …although it did make my wife think I was drinking too much, she was wondering where the puppy was…maybe practice where no one can see you…or take away your mid-morning beer

It’s a very good video isn’t it.

Shouldn't have said "self-correct". I use prongs to walk my dogs, didn't want to make the wrong impression: pups and prongs etc

Practicing on my pets. It is more difficult than it looks, but I think we are getting better.

The DVD is great, keeping re-watching it. About focal points - side of the face, upper arm - ME mentions there are pros and cons to each and "we'll discuss it later" but they never get back to it on the DVD. What did he mean?

Are they going to make a send-away and retrieve DVD any time soon? I absolutely have to have those.

Beer... yes we walk past a good brewery often, very tempting, cannot leave them tied off for long yet. Perhaps shall give it a try - have to increase the training difficulty after all

Quote: "He pulls or self-corrects with a prong - that's leash pressure, isn't it?" Unquote

What am I misunderstanding?

If you guys would rather talk about beer, I'm there.

M&M Enterprises

With prong collars when I feel the pressure on the leash increasing (they would start feeling the prongs at this point) I give it a light pop (increase in pressure caused me to give the correction). Can I say that it started as self-correction which was immediately followed by a correction from me? Poor choice of words on my part.

What's your favorite kind, Randy?

If I was watching correctly and how I’ve always understood leash “pressure” work, is that it doesn’t involve any type of pops or corrections.

You stand still and gently pull on the leash, in a straight direction, putting a small amount of “pressure” on the prongs. The minute the pup’s head goes down (as opposed to resisting or pulling backwards) and he takes one step forward – you instantly drop the leash (release all pressure) and reward, reward, reward. They generally catch onto this very quickly. The second time (again important to stand still, putting a small amount of “pressure” on the leash/prongs – pulling in a straight direction) there is usually very little resistance and they come forward almost instantly, drop the leash, reward, reward, reward. Once they have this down, you work on the backwards steps.

The idea is that they learn (understand) how to instantly turn “off” the slightest amount of pressure and you have automatic steering in no time.

I did this with a flat collar on my pup and half the time I don’t even know I’m walking a 130 lb animal – mind you that could partially be the beer.

Of course, there are no corrections in LP work but there are (or at least there were, with my pets) corrections when teaching walking on leash. In both cases it starts the same: the pressure increases, but with walking there is a correction following immediately and in LP the pressure builds up till the dog gives in and is immediately released when that happens.

Re-watched the DVD again and realized that I missed "all puppy walking is done on a harness so that the puppy does not get to rehearse leash-pulling on the collar." I imagine a 6m/o Mal pup on a harness could pull pretty strong. Guess I'll worry about that when we get there.

With my pets there is definitely a problem here:

ME: "Once you introduce the prong collar during the leash pressure work it could be used both to give information and for correction. If the prong is introduced for correction first there is no going back. Same with e-collar."

Well, I guess I have to at least try to re-train them, otherwise there would be no fine leash work here. What a mess

Hey Anna,

I know this is an old thread, but, you must have missed the part in that video where Mike talks about mitigating unwanted behaviors. According to Mike, you should not use a prong collar until the leash pressure work has been completed, and the dog is heeling well. He says to mitigate 'regular walk' behavior with head collars or harnesses.

Lisa

Haven't missed it ME is right - there is no going back. Wish the DVD came out a couple of years earlier, before I got my dogs. But then again, they are rescues, I don't think there is much room for fine leash pressure work with a 1yr old from a shelter who is pulling like crazy.

I have been trying all this time to make them more leash sensitive at least when heeling with very limited success.