Hello, I am new to the forums, but I have looked through a great deal of the rest of the site. I just have a couple of questions. I am new at working with dogs. I have done a lot of research, but I know that experience is more important.
My husband and I lost our lab/husky mix to cancer last September. Shortly after, we acquired a two year old Doberman from a rescue situation. The first dog was more my husband's than mine, and the Doberman (Felix) is the first dog that I am the primary caretaker of.
Felix is a good dog for the most part, but there are a few things that we need to work on. I would like to take him to obedience classes, but at the moment I cannot afford to.
How do you tell if a dog respects you and sees you as the leader? I know he loves me, but I don't know if he sees me as completely dominant. Also, how do you tell if a dog is soft or hard? Should you expect your dog to listen to others, or just you?

 Quote: Steph Schneider

Hello, I am new to the forums, but I have looked through a great deal of the rest of the site. I just have a couple of questions. I am new at working with dogs. I have done a lot of research, but I know that experience is more important.
My husband and I lost our lab/husky mix to cancer last September. Shortly after, we acquired a two year old Doberman from a rescue situation. The first dog was more my husband's than mine, and the Doberman (Felix) is the first dog that I am the primary caretaker of.
Felix is a good dog for the most part, but there are a few things that we need to work on. I would like to take him to obedience classes, but at the moment I cannot afford to.
How do you tell if a dog respects you and sees you as the leader? I know he loves me, but I don't know if he sees me as completely dominant. Also, how do you tell if a dog is soft or hard? Should you expect your dog to listen to others, or just you?

Stephanie, welcome.

The terms dominant, soft, and hard are divergent in their use.

If you tell us what you think might be an indicator a pack structure problem, I betcha we can help much better.

Soft and hard -- these terms have to do with reaction to corrections. But again, it's so much easier to answer if you detail what you are seeing that makes you wonder about it.

These sound like non-answers, I know. But even among the most experienced old hands, terminology often makes for a communication challenge. JMO, of course.

Are you doing marker work with the dog? What are the few things you need to work on?

PS
I'm sorry about the Lab/Husky.

I would want my dog to listen to me primarily. I'm a little looser when it comes to close family members giving commands, even though it bothers me a little bit. I'd rather know that my dog is going to listen to me 100% and not listen to someone else, that could turn into trouble with people you don't know giving your dog commands.

Did the shelter give you any info on the dogs background? Like has the dog had dominance issues, or maybe was a hard/soft dog?

A soft dog doesn't need a firm correction. Whereas a hard dog can take a firm correction. Example: You tell a soft dog to sit and it doesn't right away and you raise you voice just a little (or give a small pop on the leash) and the dog sits immediately. A hard dog would need a firm verbal command and/or a harder pop on the leash. Think of a scale of 1-10 for corrections. Soft dogs would only need up to a level 4 correction, a hard would need from 4-5 up to level 10 correction.

As far as your pack structure in your home, you need to establish that you are the leader in whatever way you can. Whether you claim a room (bedroom, living room, kitchen, etc.), you are the one who gives the food when it's time, you initiate play/work with the dog. Any of those things would put you in the leader position. But you need to be consistant and fair. You can't let the dog do one thing one day and not the next, that's not consistant and the dog won't see you as a reliable leader and will try and assume the leader role. With a breed that is known to be firmer and more on the dominant side, you will want to make it known that YOU and/or your hubby are the boss, not the dog. If you dwell on any bad things that may have happened in the dogs past it will show weakness, which is another thing that the dog will see as an unreliable leader.
The top priority is to be the leader from day one and not let the dog walk all over you.

If you can afford it, I'd look into these two DVD's: http://leerburg.com/302.htm This may be the best investment you could make. I always felt like learning how to train my dogs on my own and, of course, reading and watching these DVD's was the better choice than taking my dog to OB classes where, IMO, can be a waste of time and money. It may not be the case for someone who's never trained a dog in their life. But you have co-owned another dog and know the basics, even though the dog was trained already, you still gave it commands and reinforced good behaviors, I'm sure.

Good luck and kudos for rescuing!


Sorry for going on and on, lol. I'm sure others wil jump in and help out too

I do not believe that I was given completely accurate information on his background, but this is just what I was told. He belonged to a couple that bought him for around $3,000 from a breeder. I think he was a gift for the wife. When they got divorced, the wife did not have enough money to live on her own, so she was forced to live with the man. Felix was banned from the house by the man; I am not sure why because they also have two kids and a female Doberman. The woman works as a dog groomer at a vet’s office, so Felix was forced to live in the kennels there. He was chewing on himself and starving himself, so when my husband and I heard about him we had to go get him. (My aunt is friends with the woman.) His owner let us take him for free; we just had to drive a long way.

She told us that he did not get along well with other male dogs. He has scars on his face and arms that the woman said was from a female dog that he lived with, but I have a feeling he has been in fights with other dogs. Shortly after we brought him home, we were watching my brother-in-law’s pit bull, Tank. They were doing fine until Tank took one of Felix’s bones. Felix attacked him and luckily Tank is submissive so he just went down and didn’t fight back. There were only a few scratch marks from teeth, so it was not severe and was easily broken up. My husband was watching both of them again recently and Felix was acting very dominant and slightly aggressive with Tank. I heard that dog should not show aggression in front of a pack leader, is this true?

I was not there, I think it may have gone differently if I had been. I have trouble getting my husband to listen to me about dog training. He gets angry if I try to tell him something even though he has not done research on the subject. I make Felix do a down and wait before I fill his food bowl and then when I put it down he needs to wait until I tell him it is o.k. before he gets up to eat it. My husband does not do this though. He then wonders why the dog listens to me better. I am the type that asserts dominance in a calm, usually silent way while he thinks force is the best way. Sorry if I am ranting, it is just frustrating.

Felix still pushes his face into me to try to get attention (I don’t give him affection when he does this). That is the main reason why I wonder what he thinks of me. He also pulls on the lead unless I use a prong collar. Some days he will listen to sit, down, and wait perfectly, other days I need to give him a verbal correction, and other times a collar correction before he does. I know he has a high pain tolerance because of things he has done in the past.

If he is demanding attention from a guest, I tell them to not let him be pushy, but should I actually step in and do something about it instead of having the other person do it (usually not successfully)?

Welcome, Stephanie, I hope you enjoy and benefit from all the knowledge here like I have.

I would seperate those dogs RIGHT NOW and keep them apart until you learn more about the new dog and get some more relationship building and training done.

Ed Frawley has numerous free e-books on this site. The most pertinent is "introducing new dogs to a home with other dogs" or simlar. In it, Ed lays out his methods for managing the situation. It's here:

http://leerburg.com/pdf/introducingdogs.pdf

The article on pack structure is relevant:

http://leerburg.com/pdf/packstructure.pdf

You are fortunate you did not have a big vet bill for stitches in the pit pup. Next time you might not be so fortunate. With crates and/or tethers you can manage the dogs to be safe.

Not being judgemental here. If you want to improve the Dobie's life (and good for you for doing so), you have to place the dog in situations that stack the odds for success.

I'm glad you are here and glad you are posting. Strap on your helmet, leave your ego at the door, and have fun!

And those damn husbands can be stubborn sometimes, can't they?

If you can find a way to get a Leerburg video and watch it together, you can get on the same page. I would place this on an even higher priority than the obedience classes, because there is just so much relevant info there about managing the entire home situation, not just training the dog...

(I might get in trouble for mentioning this, but if you search "Leerburg" on ebay, you can sometimes find used DVD's at a greatly reduced rate.)

Good luck.

 Quote: Rob Abel

... If you can find a way to get a Leerburg video and watch it together, you can get on the same page. I would place this on an even higher priority than the obedience classes, because there is just so much relevant info there about managing the entire home situation, not just training the dog...

This is such a great suggestion. We have made this suggestion to teens whose parents wouldn't credit them with any training knowledge as well as to spouses in the same position.

It's so different to have a very expert third party explaining! Even if you watch 1/2 hour a night of a video (in fact, maybe that's best, especially with the 4-hour ones), it will get you both going in the same direction.

Hi Steph and welcome.

re your guests, you most definately should step in and don't let Felix be pushy. It might take just a 'Knock it Off!' on your part, or you may want to crate him, tether him to you, or place him in a long down, if he's at that point in his obedience.

Rob makes several good points, including managing your dog's environment. You do that by not putting the dog in a position where you cannot control the outcome easily. So, for now, don't let him mingle with other dogs.

You don't mention how you are training him, but if you have not read about marker training (clicker training), you should, when you have the time. It's a great way to build a bond with your dog and you will get much better results from your training than if you are using compulsion.

Thank you everyone for the great advice. I will look into buying the DVD's. I just wanted to add that I was not there the last time that Felix and my brother-in-law's dog were together. When I have both of them with me I watch Felix for his cues so I can stop him before he becomes aggressive. He gives a warning, but it is body language, so it is hard for most people to see.

I have a problem with controlling his excitement during training. Sometimes he will just do everything he knows, before I ask him to do anything, in order to get the treat. Has anyone had this problem before?

 Quote: Steph Schneider

He gives a warning, but it is body language, so it is hard for most people to see.

Welcome!

I know I am on the paranoid side and very extra cautious, but please be very, very careful with the assumption that you can catch the cue or stop him in time. Dog fights are very dangerous and not as easy to stop as one would think. Ed F. has a lot of pictures, stories posted if you haven't seen them, check it out. My apologies if you already know this and have a plan if a fight were to break out. Like I said, when it comes to possible fights I error on the way side of caution. I would hate to have something happen to you, Felix or the pit.

(IMO, the only body language warnings are the worst type)