I sure hope this is in the right spot. If not I will move it.

Ok, heres the situation. Hubby and I are getting our French Brittany next Friday. We have been going back and forth deciding how we want him trained. We decided to do the Michael Ellis videos for marker training series minus the Tug. Bird dog and tug wont work for us. So to get the hunting specific training and experience we are doing our local NAVHDA (North American Versitle Hunting Dog Association). But we have off season, and so far from what we have seen (granted he is about 7 weeks old) this pup is VERY food orientated. He has his head stuck in his food bowl all the time if its available (its not). Since he can be jumped on by bigger dogs and climbed over by his sister with not a whimper, bark, whine etc. I am really thinking doing therapy training for the off hunting season.

I know you can train a dog to stand, we would need this because we are trialing our dog for field trials (not alot just to get TAN (french equilivant for natural hunting ability)). So are we crazy? I know from past experince Brittanys have a high energy drive and need the "mental" stimulation.

Also, both my husband and I are in the medical field. Hubby is a CNA, and I am a nursing student/CNA. We know how much animals can help.

Let me know your thoughts. Is it insane for this type of goal to have in mind, or should we just stick with hunting? Also, YES I do relize this is a looonnnngggg ways off but I just want an idea of where I want my training to be focused when that point comes.

Thanks (slightly befuddled soon-to-be newbie owner)


Mary

Train the primary use and see if you have a dog which would be an ideal TD candidate at about 12 months old. The number of dogs I see with TD titles granted way too young IMO that have zero business being therapy dogs 4-6 months later amazes me. The test for TD is kind of in kin to CGC so if your dog can pass that with a slight modification you can go into TD.

If you're doing advanced hunt training that is a year round process compared to the good ol boy who hauls out the family lab twice a year.

Mary, one of the most famous bird dog trainers, Delmar Smith, once said "Give that first year to the pup, and he'll spend the rest of his life hunting for you." Most of the bird dog purists do very little during the first year other than basic house manners, and TONS OF TIME off leash in the field, any time you can, spending time with wild birds. I would highly recommend a couple books as well (Bird Dog by Ben O. Williams and How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves by Joan Bailey). The hunters tend to highly discourage obedience training too early because it tends to take the independent thinking out of the dog. A good bird dog works on his own an awful lot of the time, checking back with the handler every now and then as necessary. After that first 18 mos. - 2 years, I would bet you could "dual train" a hunting dog to do all sorts of stuff. I'm a little surprised not to see more hunting breeds represented in, for example, agility competitions in the spring/summer. I think what happens most often is that the dogs hunt in the fall/winter, then trial in the spring/summer. Not alot of time left for the other stuff for the bird dog team.

I have spent a fair amount of time on another forum for gun dogs. Their owners are prone to do the same thing we do over here with the young ones - try to move a young pup too quickly in our enthusiasm to ensure that he has all the training to be a great one.

Socializing in all environments is a very good thing for a young bird dog. Have fun!!!

I am curious how much hunting training is done in a tiny pup? I have never trained a gun dog.

I don't know that one training would preclude the other. I do not have intense working dogs visiting. But I can't see how it would "interfere" with hunting work. Just if you could tone down the dog for the visits.

Melissa, I am curious about some of what comments you made re therapy work but am posting to that forum. Just FYI

Exactly what we were thinking. We just want to expose him to all sorts of things in his first year so he gets that he is definitly ok and the things wont hurt him. This breed is exteremly all around kind of dog. In France where this pup originated from they are fully hunting these pups by 4 months old. Not knocking that but I want my pup to be a pup his first 8 months- 1 year. Thats why we thought marker training would be the prefered way to go for training because you can adapt it to so many things. That and I don't know if I agree how they teach hunting dogs using the "chain gang" method and how they teach for "whoa" training using dog tied between a pole and the handler. Doesn't hurt them, but not something I want to put my pup through (pups taking the place for my want of a third child, hubby says no more two legged kids , but dogs are A ok! lol).

So far then we are on the right track for thinking... I hope.

I think a lot of the "no obedience as puppies" for working dogs stuff is a relic from the old-school Kohler days.

Sure, if yank & crank were the only training options available, I'd definitely avoid that with a working pup too, as it crushes their drive and enthusiasm; its efficacy is based on a lot of learned helplessness.

Marker training builds drive, enthusiasm and independent thinking.

 Quote: Aaron Myracle

Marker training builds drive, enthusiasm and independent thinking.

Can't disagree with that!!

Sometimes the sequence of commands might differ, though, between a bird dog and some of other work dogs. For example, birddoggers tend not to work much on sit and down with young dogs because some dogs tend to offer up a sit or down when on point (as a default behavior). So, they bring in the sit/down later after the dog is staunch (and stylin') on point.

Combine those experiences with lots of exposure to birds in the field, and lots of socialization with people and environments (necessary for the TD), and you've got a happy, healthy bird dog in the making.

It's all good, and no, Mary, you're not crazy to be thinking about these two venues, I think they'll go together very well! Those little FB's are such charmers, they are natural for TD's in addition to being outstanding hunters.

 Quote: sonya gilmore

I am curious how much hunting training is done in a tiny pup?

No "training" really, just exposure and socialization like any other dog. You'd be AMAZED to see a young well-bred pup in the field around birds. They act like they've been doing it all their life! They absolutely live to get out there again.

The pup "trains" himself to point by chasing repeatedly, and learning that he can't catch birds. He then begins to stalk them, which eventually evolves into a point. The genetic contribution these babies get from mom and dad is nothing short of miraculous.

 Quote: Rob Abel

Sometimes the sequence of commands might differ, though, between a bird dog and some of other work dogs. For example, birddoggers tend not to work much on sit and down with young dogs because some dogs tend to offer up a sit or down when on point (as a default behavior). So, they bring in the sit/down later after the dog is staunch (and stylin') on point.

Not quite. Honoring (where another dog completes the retrieve or you need a gap of time from shooting to the retrieve) is at least for me a difficult thing to teach once a dog has started the anticipation point of training. You need a solid sit, wait, and down.

 Quote: melissa thom

Not quite. Honoring (where another dog completes the retrieve or you need a gap of time from shooting to the retrieve) is at least for me a difficult thing to teach once a dog has started the anticipation point of training. You need a solid sit, wait, and down.

Have to disagree. Have seen too many sits or drops on point, but that's cool if it works that way for you. I see an "honor" similar to a stand/stay. Agree on the challenge, though, especially in young dogs. An honor is an advanced skill. That's why I'm amazed to see guys hunting 3, 4, 5 dogs together and see all the dogs honor the first point. It's really a sight to see.