Dogs' Emotions...
#286981 - 07/22/2010 10:32 PM |
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I read recently that dogs' don't feel jelousy, and the behavior often attributed to this is often possessivness.
How do we know this? How is it determined that a dog does NOT feel jelousy?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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Re: Dogs' Emotions...
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#286982 - 07/22/2010 10:49 PM |
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I read recently that dogs' don't feel jelousy, and the behavior often attributed to this is often possessivness.
How do we know this? How is it determined that a dog does NOT feel jelousy?
Inquiring minds want to know.
First, for clarity, I mean jealousy, not envy. The thread was about jealousy, as I recall.
I've read a few books on the emotional lives of dogs (as well as known and worked with many), and what is described as jealousy by some, even by authoritative behaviorists, to me is resource-guarding. That is, unlike human jealousy, which I would describe as a fear of losing a loved one to an interloper, the dog is more likely to be demonstrating his ownership of the valued item (including an owner who the dog perceives as his possession) and his unwillingness to share. Anguish over real or imagined romantic rivalry is not the same to me as dominant displays of "this belongs to me."
Maybe more to the point is the occasional human who takes jealousy to that level (ownership).
I think the big problem with an owner ascribing such behavior as "jealousy" or "protectiveness" is that s/he fails to grasp the huge underlying perception on the part of the dog that he is the "owner," that he is in charge, and that he dictates who gets to use, see, play with, eat, lie on, be near the guarded object. When that object is the owner, there's a big pack structure issue going on.
JMO!
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Re: Dogs' Emotions...
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#286985 - 07/22/2010 10:59 PM |
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I read recently that dogs' don't feel jelousy, and the behavior often attributed to this is often possessivness.
How do we know this? How is it determined that a dog does NOT feel jelousy?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Barbara,
During the embryonic development of the canine brain; receptors which are necessary to trigger the primal emotion of jealousy are overtaken by the possesiveness neurons which blocks a dog's ability to experience jealousy. Everyone knows that! It's called the BS Theorem of Dog Emotional Development
For a minute there you thought I was super intelligent didn't you?
LOL! I don't know what I'm feeling half the time so I have no clue who has figured out a dog's emotions....oops I mean behavior.
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Re: Dogs' Emotions...
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#286990 - 07/22/2010 11:13 PM |
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That is, unlike human jealousy, which I would describe as a fear of losing a loved one to an interloper, the dog is more likely to be demonstrating his ownership of the valued item (including an owner who the dog perceives as his possession) and his unwillingness to share. Anguish over real or imagined romantic rivalry is not the same to me as dominant displays of "this belongs to me."
Ah ha! says the blind man... Makes perfect sense.
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Re: Dogs' Emotions...
[Re: Sheila Buckley ]
#286993 - 07/22/2010 11:17 PM |
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Barbara,
During the embryonic development of the canine brain; receptors which are necessary to trigger the primal emotion of jealousy are overtaken by the possesiveness neurons which blocks a dog's ability to experience jealousy. Everyone knows that! It's called the BS Theorem of Dog Emotional Development
For a minute there you thought I was super intelligent didn't you?
LOL! I don't know what I'm feeling half the time so I have no clue who has figured out a dog's emotions....oops I mean behavior.
LOL! My first thought was "Oh no, please speak to me so I can understand!!" You got me. You also got me with the reminder that these are behaviors - not emotions. Got it and will try to remember that.
And for a brief moment, you DID look brilliant and I was in awe.
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Re: Dogs' Emotions...
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#287016 - 07/23/2010 07:21 AM |
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My brother in law had a pitt mix when I was in my early 20's. He'd had her since he was a teenager, and she to date was the best trained pet I have ever been around. When he went to Boot Camp and then to his job training, I took care of her. While she was with me, she got the best of care, becasue she was older and I loved her dearly. But, she seemed to mourn his absence and was almost acting depressed. Mark cam home after 5 months, and she acted like a puppy for about a month, then died of old age.
Am I wrong for thinking she was having an emotional reaction to him leaving??
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Re: Dogs' Emotions...
[Re: Janet Foley ]
#287022 - 07/23/2010 07:46 AM |
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Am I wrong for thinking she was having an emotional reaction to him leaving??
I don't think so Janet. I was thinking more about this topic earlier this AM... We know dogs feel emotions such as happiness, excitement, fear, etc... and we know they develop strong bonds, so "depression" (maybe not exactly how we think of it) doesn't seem like a far stretch.
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Re: Dogs' Emotions...
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#287027 - 07/23/2010 08:53 AM |
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I have seen doogs mourn, Loki mourned Levi's abscence for about a month, it was heartbreaking.
I also watched Nico refuse all attention or affection from me when my son was born. She didn't eat for almost a week and it was months before she was affectionate with me again.
Ubridled joy is a beautiful thing to see in a dog.
Neither one of those are jealousy, but they are strong emotions.
I don't believe dogs feel jealousy in the same way we do, but I think that we as humans call jealousy isn't so different from what dogs are doing/feeling.
"That is mine, back off!" or "You have something I want!"
We just have a lot of emotional mumbo jumbo to go with it as well as social protocol that generally stops us from acting out to get what we want.
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Re: Dogs' Emotions...
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#287030 - 07/23/2010 09:21 AM |
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Temple Grandin is a great read on this very subject--"Animals In Translation", especially.
She's of the opinion that dogs (and all the other sentient animals she has researched) do have an emotional life---but that it operates at a less complex range than humans and other primates. She identifies a short list of hardwired emotional needs in dogs, cows, pigs, hamsters--and the kinds of stimuli they need to be emotionally healthy.
But I don't think she necessarily feels that emotional complexity is a virtue. Part of what we love about animals is the purity of their emotions.
The problem (if we can call it that) is that humans often try to project their own complexity of emotions onto animals who don't really have that capacity. Dogs simply aren't wired to feel things like embarrasment, shame, jealousy--emotions that requre a heightend ability to predict how someone else will feel--and perhaps that's not such a bad thing. But animals certainly do have very pure emotions when it comes to things like fear and joy. And they also have a lot of abilities that humans don't have that give them a different kind of emotional intelligence.
I can't recommend her writing enough as a way to better understand (with our limited human ability) how animals think.
Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon |
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Re: Dogs' Emotions...
[Re: Tracy Collins ]
#287035 - 07/23/2010 10:01 AM |
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This book has been mentioned numerous times - I'm going to have to get it. Thanks Tracy!
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