This is a great segue to what I originally logged on to ask about. Jeter (pictured below) has always been the dominant one between him and Dakota (she is a Pit/Lab max about the same size and age) He can rip her apart and at one time I had an issue with them staring each other down during feeding time. They were always able to eat about 10 feet from each other and slowly they began to play games and it became a staring contest that I was advised by the good folks on this site would quickly turn ugly if I didn't do something.

I have been feeding them one at a time and it seems to be fine. Jeter eats first while Dakota sits patiently and waits. When he is done he walks out of the kitchen past her and she shyly comes in to the kitchen and eats. No issues. But after Jeter is done she seems very careful about waiting until he is in his crate (he goes by himself) and then she eats.

So it seems that he is the dominant one. When they play they play rough and he is the first to fall on to his back and show his belly. He is very vocal growling and making dog noises and she seems to be more aggressive when they play fight but if he ever gets serious she backs right off.

Here is where it gets interesting...if they have bones (high value stuff) she can take his away but if he goes near her she attacks him. She sits near her bone and seems only interested in guarding it. I coax her to enjoy it and she will chew it and begin to forget about him until he moves. Then she is very alert and watching his every move.

He stays away from her while she does this and seems to be submitting. Yesterday I had them outside with me and I brought out the bones for them to enjoy. I noticed Jeter body language was different with his bone outside. Next thing you know Dakota came near his bone and he snapped at her (he never did this indoors) and she went back at him...I had to break up a dog fight. Not pretty with 2 75lb Pits.

So what gives? Outside is different than inside or should I be on extra alert now because maybe the dynamic has changed since yesterdays experience.

he can hurt her seriously and I don't want two dogs that need to be kept separate. I would also appreciate some advice on how to correct when one of the dogs is guarding in an aggressive way. Currently I take the bones away when Dakota guards her with aggression.
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It is foolish to put your dogs into a position of having to resource guard anything, especially not food or HV treats, especially dogs with a history of getting into 'spats' or worse yet fights.

I will give my dogs treats together for behaviors that I ask of them. (sit, down, speak etc). My dogs are fed meals seperately. One in a crate or if eating outside, one in the kennel. Any high valued treats, like bones, are also treated like a meal. While my dogs will occasionally 'mix it up' if given the chance, I am vigilent at all times, that they are together. Although I could feed them together, if I chose to, why would I put either of them in a state of mind that they have to guard a meal or bone. That just isn't fair to either of them. They should be able to relax & enjoy their meal or treat, not feel like the have to be watching their back. JMO

I think you may have gotten a little too caught up in the whole pack leader deal Alec. Your creating issues that you would be better off just managing with better separation.

 Quote: Alec Garrison

I would also appreciate some advice on how to correct when one of the dogs is guarding in an aggressive way. Currently I take the bones away when Dakota guards her with aggression.

Hi Alec,
I wouldn't ever let these 2 even begin to approach a situation where one had an opportunity to guard a high value item from the other. Period. Just don't create a scenario where this is possible (YOU control their environment and everything in it).

It doesn't really matter which one of your dogs is more dominant than the other (insecure dogs lower on the totem pole can feel the need to guard and be defensive about things they get hold of too) - if your goal is to avoid fights, you need to avoid triggers, and in this case, you KNOW that food/treat items are triggers for guarding and aggression... No bones of any kind unless each dog is separated by crate/door/or other physical (and possibly visual as well) barrier. If you want to give them a treat to gnaw on, let them enjoy it in peace without having to stress out about the other dog taking it, or feeling compelled to go check out what the other one has. That's what I would do anyway.

~Natalya

I don't see how either situation is that much different.

doesn't matter which dog starts it first or wether it's inside or out.

You're creating the opportunity for problems with them.

2 dogs that were already giving you signs that they have resource guarding issues with each other should never have a high value treat like bones around each other.

It doesn't matter that YOU want them to be able to have these kinds of treats around each other. They are giving you huge signals that THEY don't want to have these bones around each other.

As much as we want certain things for out dogs...sometimes we just can't have it.

Forgive me, tried to send a PM and it didn't work.

Wendy - What kind of dog/mix is this in your sig pic? (If you don't mind me asking)

Good advice from all. It sounds like something like this I shouldn't even try to condition out of them. Is this a behavior that is so difficult to try to correct that I should just never try to teach them differently?

 Quote: Alec Garrison

Is this a behavior that is so difficult to try to correct that I should just never try to teach them differently?

That's not my perspective at all.

My perspective is that I have zero reason to force them to submit to uneasiness or fear around items I gave them.

I give it, and the dog gets to enjoy it happily and without watching his back. Period.

JMO.

eta

In fact, my non-resource-guarding dogs will never be given HV items together. Why would I want to trigger something that does not now exist?

Edited by Connie Sutherland (07/26/2010 03:26 PM)
Edit reason: eta

My dogs dont even talk to each other without permission....seriously.
If they do they get corrected.
They are fed separately and there are no high value items lying around.

I used to think the way you do.

I read most of Ed's E-books,and got the vid on pack leadership.

That changed my views on how to handle multiple dogs in a house.

The alpha decides who fights and when..you don't see wolf packs having lots of fights and the such....the pack couldn't function otherwise.

I think that like I needed to, you need to reeducate your self on this issue.

Willie

Reiterating but hey....
I would NOT continue offering the opportunity to fight. Once something goes with two dogs you may spend the rest of their lives keeping them entirely separated. NOT fun and not worth trying to make a point.

Other random additions...Every pack of dogs I have had was ultimately governed by a bitch. Right now it is Widget. She is a 12# Brussels and rules with a velvet paw. BUT, if she wants something or pushes an issue...she is in charge. Norbert, (100# Ridgeback) will back down, 40# 11yo Border Collie bitches will move aside.

How old is Jeter and your girl?

Right now I can throw HV treats on the floor an no one in my house will fight....and I keep it that way by giving HV stuff in crates only. No fights, no bullying and everyone gets to enjoy some peace and trust.