This cropped up right away as soon as I initiated the new protocols, and before you all forgot what we just talked about, I wanted to ask this.

I am now walking through my rottie instead of around him. He has decided he will move sometimes, and sometimes just lay out flat and be a 100 pound weight on the floor. I seriously cannot walk through him.

He has also decided since he is almost always wearing a drag line now and is being told when play time is over, or when to go here or there, that if he really doens't want to, he will just lay down and refuse to move. Remembering this from a long time ago, treats will not always work. He has always been one to weigh the options of what you have against what he is making a stand about, and yours had better be really great. I found this out on trades when he had something off limits.

ANy suggestions. I ran up on a snag right away.

I know that others will have better suggestions, but one thing I would say is to pick your battles while you are working on pack leadership. That is, I would not get into constant battles that I have a chance of losing.

Remember Steve's post, bottom post here:

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/301189/page/0/fpart/1

To other responders, this relates to http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=301189&Searchpage=1&Main=27873&Words=+Julie+Sloan&topic=0&Search=true#Post301189

Yes. I have taken that to heart and it makes good sense. It is better a lot of times to redirect, and not worry about the "no" part of everything.

In this case, I never know when he will move or not. SO I either have to try to walk through him and it seems he will learn pretty quickly, I can't make him do it. Or I don't do it at all, and then I lose out on one of the main areas I have been slipping up on since he was a puppy. Same thing when he does not want to come in, go out, etc. How quickly he is going to learn laying down means I give up. ??

Ahhh memories of my bullmastiffs. I would say, don't make it a contest make it a game. My BMFs shut down and laid down if they were bored with the whole training. I learned to use hotdogs or cheese and bait them. TONS of praise. Pretty soon they're trying to get you to ask them to do something. I think the key was finding a really high value stuff. Otherwise they got bored, shut down. I also think that sometimes being in the way is not a challenge. They are just too lazy to move. If they are standing in the way they must move.So... Usually, like crating them at times I would toss in treats. Often cooked hotdogs. They would do ANYTHING for a hotdog. It was a way to build enthusiasm in the big lugs.

 Quote: Julie Sloan

In this case, I never know when he will move or not. SO I either have to try to walk through him and it seems he will learn pretty quickly, I can't make him do it. Or I don't do it at all, and then I lose out on one of the main areas I have been slipping up on since he was a puppy. Same thing when he does not want to come in, go out, etc. How quickly he is going to learn laying down means I give up. ??

OK, a couple of things. Walk through him when he is blocking your way in a standing position; if you can't get him to move by walking into him when he's laying down, then there is no point in continuing to try to move him this way.

You should be keeping a long line on him outside, and a shorter drag line on him inside. If it were me, I would have him in a prong collar outside (and probably inside a good part of the time); again, for control issues, not for corrections. If he lays down outside because he doesn't want to come in, get a ball or toy and coax him up, play with him a little, then end the game and bring him inside via the long line.

Find a higher value food reward, if what you are using isn't floating his boat.

Re coming into the house, etc, one thing that I did to take away the negative association with coming from outside to inside was to nearly always have a stuffed kong or other treat waiting for her as soon as she came inside. My dog loves coming into the house now(she's very food-motivated, though).

If you are using your recall word ('come' or 'here', whatever it is) to end a game or call him inside from outisde, or to get him to bring something to you that he shouldn't have in his mouth, you may want to change it. Start fresh with a new word that has no negative associations with it.

As a wise moderator here has commented many times, you want your recall word associated with every good thing that you call the dog for, especially at his age. Going for a walk, use your recall word. Feeding him, use your recall word to call him to the kitchen. Going for a ride in the car, use your recall word. Never use your recall word to call the dog to you to discipline him. Instead, just go get him via his long line if you need to.

If you are not a very animated person, try to amp up your enthusiasm when you are doing stuff with him. Make a fool out of yourself! You may be surprised at how he responds to your enthusiasm.

(ps re the prong collar...if your dog is still pulling when the prong collar is on, then you do not have it fitted correctly. It needs to be high and snug, just below his ears) You should be able to put very little pressure on the leash and have him respond the way you want)

Sometimes I just shake my head and giggle at these dogs. Everytime we teach them something new and start to congratulate ourselves, they come up with a loophole to throw a wrench in the training. Its almost as they have their own forum where they troubleshoot to find a detail we've left out. I guess we've got to choose our battles!

 Quote: julie sloan

Yes. I have taken that to heart and it makes good sense. It is better a lot of times to redirect, and not worry about the "no" part of everything.

In this case, I never know when he will move or not. SO I either have to try to walk through him and it seems he will learn pretty quickly, I can't make him do it. Or I don't do it at all, and then I lose out on one of the main areas I have been slipping up on since he was a puppy. Same thing when he does not want to come in, go out, etc. How quickly he is going to learn laying down means I give up. ??

Either call him to you and have him down where you want him to or take him by the line and heel him to where you want him, and have him down there. Stay by him for a minute, and then release him. Make it clear to him what you want and that he's accomplished it with no fight. Add longer time to the down when he understands the release.

My first guess would be the moving out of your way is just confusing to him and not that its any challenge or anything. All you really need to do is have him pay attention to you and respond to what you want. Come and down accomplish a lot when you are working on respect and manners. I may be repeating what everyone else is telling you Julie, but its really easier then it may sound and I'm pretty sure your problems just come from not being consistent in your basic ob.

Thanks for the advice, I am sure we will be on our way. I don't feel like he is being challenging either by not moving. But it does make me walk around him.

Lynne, I am very choosy with the "come" command. It is reserved for when I know he is going to come. I thik he has not responded one time in this whole year. We are building on it slowly.

The prong wasn't fitted correctly, Ed remedied that with this site, and an email. And no I am not very animated, but I tried a new approach when we did some inpromptu training this evening, and it went very well.

Jessica, I needed the laugh. Thxs!!