When I lost Sierra I knew I would eventually get a new puppy. I can't take time off work right now and my boyfriend will be out of the country for the next 3 months so I wouldn't have his help right now to properly manage a brand new 8 week old puppy but Sierra's breeder has made me an offer.

She has offered me a co-ownership of one of her two "potential breeding stock pups" that she kept back from her last litter. She has also said that if I would rather have an older dog, we could do a co-ownership of my pick of any of the older dogs in her breeding program. She would rather see her dogs have one on one interaction and training than one on twelve training with just her.

There is a female and a male available that are almost 5 months old. They would for all intents and purposes be my dog, but would have to return to the breeder when it came time to breed and would then come back to me. When they were finished their breeding life or if they did not qualify (hips, elbows etc), they would be spayed or neutered and would signed over completely to me.

I can't decide which would be easier to handle; an unspayed female or intact male as I've always dealt with fixed animals. I'm always careful with any animal I have but I'm thinking with a female I would only have to be *super* vigilant for a few weeks while they were in season. With a male, I would *always* have to be super vigilant.

I'm also thinking that if I got a 5 month old pup I would have plenty of time to establish my leadership and training although the older dogs are well trained already.

I have a list of questions that I will be asking my breeder but what I would like to know from the people on this forum is this; What are the pros and cons of dealing with each; unfixed female or intact male?

The first thing I would look at is the temperament, drives and energy levels of each dog. Then pick the one that matches you and your lifestyle the best. If you have met them both, or the breeder has said they are actually really close temperament wise then you can start to look at some other factors.

I have had both and I think it depends on what you want to do with your dog.

Knowing that you are already a *super vigilant* owner who is willing to take extra care during the 21-28 days twice a year (average dog) the thing you now have to think about is will that 21-28 days interfere with anything else.

For me, I have two spayed females. Twice a year I have to deal with extra whiny-ness because they can't be run off leash. It's either on leash, in an enclosed yard and marker training - when they are used to off leash runs 3-5 times a week for an hour to 2 1/2 hours at a time, this gets really hard for them.

Also, you can't trial in some venues if your dog is in heat. Others you still can, but you have to go last. You also have to deal with the raging hormones while you are trying to train and trial - not as much fun with a young dog, but my older one learned to work through it.

And lastly, some dogs can be quite messy during their heat. My first female was messy at first - now she is really clean. My pup just finished her heat and except for a few drops to and from the door, or from her mat to the door, you would have never even known she was in heat. Anyways, if you are someone who does not like a mess, or having to clean up blood after a dog - then go with the male.

I think if you do not want to deal with the above get a male. Although, I definitely prefer my females. Not sure why? I think the temperament is completely based on the dog - not on whether or not they are altered. All of the old wives tales you hear are mostly just that (ie running away to find females etc) - they are training/management issues and nothing more.

What's the plan if you take a female regarding breeding? Will she go back to the breeder to be bred, stay through her pregnancy, and the raising of the pups? If so, thats a long time without your dog.

Personally, I would go with a male simply because the breeding portion takes a lot less time away from you as co-owner.

But then, I have two spayed females and a 6 month old, un-neutered male (my first male ever).

 Quote: Debbie Martin

They would for all intents and purposes be my dog, but would have to return to the breeder when it came time to breed and would then come back to me. When they were finished their breeding life or if they did not qualify (hips, elbows etc), they would be spayed or neutered and would signed over completely to me.

I can't decide which would be easier to handle; an unspayed female or intact male as I've always dealt with fixed animals. I'm always careful with any animal I have but I'm thinking with a female I would only have to be *super* vigilant for a few weeks while they were in season. With a male, I would *always* have to be super vigilant.

Where would the female go for whelping?

I have always had intact males and have not had any issues. I now have two intact females, overall, I find males to be easier.

I wouldn't like being separated from my dog if she needed to go back to the breeder for many weeks.

Only new love cures a broken heart. I'd get one, which ever one you like best.
Or-
Go see them -- maybe NEITHER one will feel like a dog that should be yours.

IF (big question mark here), I decided on co-ownership concerning a female I'd look for something more than caring for her after the breeder decided they couldn't use her anymore.
And would probably look for a pup (of my choosing after the breeders choice) out of every litter.
I'd want to know as well how often they plan on breeding this female. Get it in writing.

If I was interested in a male, it would have to be one special dog to get me involved in a co-ownership proposition.
And then it'd be understood from the beginning how often I'd be making trips in any one year of his life for breeding purposes, as in written into the contract.

Nah, I'll probably never co-own a dog.
So what?
I'm assuming the well being of the dog, why would I give up any part of them and give up part of my life (travel time and expense) for someone elses benefit and profit.

Find a dog you like, pay the money.
Live happily ever after.
No fuss, no muss.

Toni, Caterina, and Drift were all part of the breeding program. They came to me as fosters, and when Ed and Cindy decided to not breed anymore, they were "retired" and given to me.

I don't know what kind of breeding program your breeder has, but Ed and Cindy never fostered out a male dog. Also, VERY few males held back ended up breeding material. It should be an exceptional male in ALL ways to be held back and bred.

Fostered females were also regularly evaluated and only exceptional ones were bred. Several fosters never made it to breeding. This is the mark of a great kennel.. they don't breed anything and everything just because they can.

One thing I will say is that when Toni and Cat came to be 2, I would worry that they would be bred and I would lose them for quite some time (up to 8 weeks). While it wasn't as hard since I worked at the kennel, I knew it would be difficult each night when I went to bed without them. I was "lucky" and they were never bred.

And, yes, problems can happen when the female whelps. One of my favorite GSDs at the kennel died from complications during a C section. Her one pup survived, but she did not. It's rare, but it does happen. (This female was a foster dog, and her family took her death extremely hard because they were not there when she died.)

I personally prefer females, but it's totally a personal choice. My females get bitchy twice a year, but it's never been a problem. They work the same in heat as when they are not.

Good luck.

--Kel

I met the two pups in question last Saturday and I've known the father for over two years and watch the mother grow from a pup. I've met other pups from the father and they are all quite laid back, but this is the mother's first litter. Both pups I'm looking at are quite laid back in temperment with the female being a little more active than the male. This was a total surprise to me that the breeder made me this offer. She's only done it with two other people but says she would totally trust me with one of her dogs. She was very happy with all the work that I had done with Sierra.

I'm just thinking about the unfixed part because these will be large dogs, 150 to 200 lb range.

I am interested in having a well behaved house dog, possibly messing around with a little agility or tracking for fun only when they are older. I'm not interested in showing any dog I have.

I know my breeder does two breedings back to back, gives the female a year off and then two more breedings back to back and then they are retired from breeding. That is considering that everything goes well with the pups, milk production etc.

I go down to the breeder's place once a month already so it really wouldn't be much more travelling than I am used to.

I have a list of questions (about 35 so far) that I will be calling the breeder about and things like how long the female would be with her once bred is on that list. I would love to take the male, but just don't know how much hassle an intact male would be. When I had Sierra, I did a lot of off leash hiking (1-2 hours for a hike) with a group of German Shepherds and would like to do this again with any dog I get. It just occurred to me, the male may be too laid back for that. Maybe I'll just let the breeder choose for me. She knows my lifestyle and what I am looking for in a dog. She did a wonderful job choosing Sierra for me.

I rather like Kelly's term as opposed to co-owning. Fostered. With all the attendent meanings that go with the term, I think it hits closer to what the arrangement really is.

I don't want to argue the good and bad about the 'co-ownership' or fostering policy. Shrug, if it suits you then go ahead.
What I do want to emphasize though is, get all the understandings between you and the breeder on paper and that each of you needs to sign off on them. ie. A contract.