<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We are outside relaxing on this beautiful weekend, the dogs are in a down. I'm tossing them treats and snacking myself. My backs to my new neighbors house. All of a sudden the female Rottie/Pit rises and takes off, I spin around and the neighbors coming to union us, the problem is the lady (she in her 20's military) has a minature poddle on leash, with about three 20 year old men. Their in my yard about 15-10 yrds away, my bitch runs in between the guys and the girl, chasing the poddle, who is now running behind the guys, who jumps over the leash (one fell) and backing up just leaving the lady and the poddle. On the 2nd turn around the lady, swings the poddle up into her arms.

During this I'm turning to call her off as the guys jump over the leash, so a whole lot is happening real fast. Once the poddle is in her arms the Pit/Rottie looks at her then me and trouts back to our blanket, and I down her.

All I could do is apologize, the guys stated something like," I told her this wasn't a good idea". The lady stated "that your dogs seem to be so well behaved that I never thought that would happen". We introduced each other and the Shep & Rottie got to smell the female poddle.

She apologized, "saying that it was her fault for intruding and assuming". I apologized again, after this she left went inside her house, poddle still up in her arms.

I talk alot about control, this time I was totally taken by surprises. Part of the problem was that I tried to lecture the Rottie while she was in flight. I didn't issue the command until I got out, " Mulan what in hell are you doing, get back heret, then "Stop" "Leave it". I couldn't help it, I know she really doesn't understand english.

By this time the guys were up in the air the little lady was almost swinging the poddle up in her arms and it was just about over.

All this time the GSD stood, watching closely as the group approached but did not even bark, or maybe I did her him. After they went in, we lounged for another 45 minutes and went in.

The same training just different breed you take a duck out of the water and she still just a duck. Breeds does matter. Except for a long line I don't know how I could fix that. You can't keep that on forever. Any suggestions? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Any suggestions? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Well at least the dogs didn't get hurt and no one really started to freak out. IMO your dogs prey drive over took her mind. I know my boy is fine with my cats inside but once they go outside he goes apesh^t. Poodles (which unfortunately is the one breed of dog I can't stand) are small and fuzzy, the perfect walking squeek toy-like cats. How does your girl respond to cats and other small dogs? If this is her first experience with a REALLY small dog, I would guess she wanted to see what the heck it was, even if it meant disobeying you. The only thing I could suggest is an e-collar. That way if you can't get the commands out-at least you can warn and hit the correction-or should I call it panic button? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Just joken.

It sounds like your dog only listens to you when it is convenient for her or she has to"like on lead". When given a choice she does what she wants. Sometimes she makes the choice you want and sometimes she makes the choice she wants.As I belive you work with your dog and she probably does well on leash I would have to say for her my next step would be the e-collar.You simply have to have a reliable recall under all distractions.You would be surprised as to how well your dogs obedience off leash becomes when you remove the dogs own ideas that leaving you is an option.

Thanks Dee and David
The e-collar seems to be top suggestion.

I've seen them used on sporting breeds working from a distance and read some of the writings here, I think we have a couple of resident experts on this board.

David, I read that you have used it (e-training) in training, I think. Have you Dee?

How much do they cost? A range. I hear timing is very important in its use, as it is with any training process, but its parmount when using the e-collar.

How much time should I take to aquaint myself to its use before using it in her off leash OB? Once purchased.

I live in a very wooded area, I've seen dead rat as big as a small cat, birds and dead squirrels in my back yard. Her prey/hunting drive is very strong and though she seems to be the meekest and desires (outside the pack) petting more then the GSD, she is the dog fighter and small animal killer of the group. The poddle probably reminded her of other small prey and after making numerous kills on wild prey, she probably thought of the poddle as prey. I think you are right, it will take something like the e-collar to stop this.

I wonder if its time for a Rabies booster shot? Is it hard or recommended to do this yourself?

Dee when it comes to cats she will alert on them, when we are walking but she will ignore them on command, as will the GSD or course even in this situation she is harder to get under control. No barking or growling. Her ears come up and hair on her back and she is pulling toward the cat. But with a leave it and a leash correction she's through.

How about testing her off leash with a caged animal and see if I can call her off? I'm thinking if I could have got the command out in time she may have stopped. What do you think?

Will a trained dog stop, if you are fussing and she/he doesn't hear the command, because you have not said anything she recognize that means "stop"?

Am I making excuses for her? When you are close its hard to be unbiase.

I have to admit alot of things she does, I use to think cames from mimicking the GSD. But on and off leash by herself she gotten pretty good (without a poddle distraction apparently).

Thanks I start researching the type of e-collars and it use. Any help would be appreciated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey Don,
I got my e-collar for Mothers-Day it was only about $100.00 but it is doing the trick. They start about $100.00 and go up from there. As far as how long to acquant yourself-make sure that after you give her the stim she responds right away, once you have reached this point I think you should be safe, make sure that you try it first in an area where if she doesn't respond you can get her back easily. My GSD responds to it very quickly now. His problem was he knew if the leash wasn't on-Mommy couldn't do sh^t. But now Mommy can without him knowing how she does it. You should have seen his face the first time I used it....he looked at me like "what in the heck just happened"-now he doesn't even have to have it on and he responds just by the sound.

Looking at the prey drive IMO that is why she went after the Poodle or in her mind the rat on a leash. This is the first thing you have to try to do, figure out how she sees things. Unfortunately dogs that kill animals is an issue that you would have to work on. I think it is something that you probably will be battling for a long time, but the "caged animal" preferably a rat, is something you could do as a finally test. I have heard it is hard to break them of this-but I don't know that for sure...I will PM you tomorrow with some more ideas on how to work with this issue.

I don't know what the Rabies booster would have to do with it.
I think the fussing will cause the dog to become more frenzied, that is why if you had the e-collar you could use the "panic button", she may have thought you felt threatened by the leashed rat.

Is this the first encounter with a dog this small? She probably thought it was one of the local rats <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Don't blame her. How does she do with Cocker Spaniel size dogs? I will keep thinking and give you PM tomorrow

Don,
There are people on the board that live for the e-collar. I am not one of them. However I do like them and use them for a few things.The biggest thing I like them for are recalls when you have a dog that likes to blow off the command when it feels like it.I like to do my obed training on leash and if done right the transition to off leash is no big deal.But if you then put an ecollar recall on the dog it not only gives you an excellent recall but makes the off leash obed much better and more reliable because the option of leaving you has been taken away.I like the dogtra e-collar and they cost like 200 and up.Back to your dog I dont care if it was prey drive, aggression, curiosty, or what the dog should still respond to your recall also the dog should have never broke the down no matter what it saw coming across the yard.Wich is another good thing to keep in check with the e-collar. Go ahead and get a good collar and you will always have it for future use on this dog or your next dog.

Don,

I would highly reccomend reading all Lou's articles on using an ecollar before beginning. They are fantastic. Laying a good foundation is essential.

I have a Dogtra 1200NC and love it. It was about $600CDN to my doorstep. I wouldn't reccomend a cheaper version (ie Petstore brands) as you have a way higher chance of malfunction and inconsistancy. They are also more difficult to use and don't have many stim levels to work with. Most cheaper brands also aren't waterproof - something which is very important to me.

Good Luck!

Heather

Dee I might be able to afford $100-200 e-collar, what brand is yours? The others suggested the Dogatra 1200nc but there seems to be a $200 difference in the price (I guess depending where and when you purchased it).

She isn't that animal aggressive in front of me, the only real fight that I've seen her in was with another neigbor's Dobermann a yr. ago who was off leash walking pass our house with his Owner. My back was turned again. I really think she was just trying to greet the owner, ears down, back hair smooth, tail wagging, walked out (is the reason I wasn't alarmed as she walked passed me, not knowing what was behind me). Until the Dobbie taged her, then it was on.

I was able to call her off but not before she (grabbed his leg) flipped him and tossed him a bit. In the middle of this fight she turned her back to the dobermann (he got up limping) and came back like boy that was fun. I verbal reprimand her again, she sat and listened. Maybe she sat? And apologized to the neighbor, who said "that was Ok"??? Face expression like she was proud of Ole Joe. The Dobe is on leash on walks now, but not alway when around the house.

When I'm pick up the dead bodies of these rodents she circles staying away and never making real eye contact sorta out of the corner of her eye, the GSD is right there in my face. Just like she did when she bite my water hose off at the facet, torn up my vac and Lawn mower bags. Sneaky bitch.

Dee
Usually if a dog tries to approach us, when walking, she is the first to greet them cocker or Rottie sizes. There was this one incident when this Great Dane and Spainel setter running loose came in our front yard I sent my dogs to the back yard, these dogs followed, only the GSD approached barking at the yr. old GD. What does that mean? She knows her limitations or I talk too much.

David, like you guys mentioned this was obviously a oversight on my part, she has done this with bodies of water, one other dog (the dobermann) and the jump. She does it when she wants to. Now I've notice some relibility before she starts running, after that she returns, after one plunge. I usually only verbal discpline her. She usually will sit looking up, down her self, or circle me then downhead between her legs. But its not funny anymore and I can't blame it on her being mix with PBT.

It's because I haven't corrected her hard enough when she was in error. Right? Or is my timing off after the fact? Yes, I see were the e-collar would be effective.

So I'm getting broken reliability off leash. On leash she is near perfect. I notice that I keep excusing her off leash (in my mind I'm thinking for her breed, that's good). But the more I hear on this board and others these breeds can be reliable.

Is there something to this breed thing that I got stuck in my head? That is Pits & Rotties being more stuborn and animal aggressive, therefore harder to be reliable.

I've seen the GSD chase rabbits and catch possum, he'll knock them over and they will play possum and he will leave them, she will get a bite in before leaving them. I asked about the Rabies booster, because of that and this is an area/season were there is a high rate of rabies in skunks and other wild life, probably rats etc...that she is killing.

Heather wow $600, does it serve you breakfast & coffee and fix the dogs snacks. Water proof? A question to the others is your e-collar water proof? Can you find a water proof e-collar for less then $400-600?

I'll re-read Lou's article thanks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />