Hi Everyone, we adopted Skipper 6 months ago, with his 'cell mate' Jethro. We noticed right from the first trip home that Skipper could bark... bark... bark... when put in a crate. I hope I am conveying the nature of the barking. It is one bark, wait a couple seconds, and then the next bark. And it will go on interminably. It definitely appears to be a mindset of anxiety that gets triggered and then he doesn't stop until he is let out.

He uses the same method to get attention when he needs to go out to pee. Mostly we take him out frequently enough that he doesn't have to bark at all. Just the odd time.

He is perfectly happy in his crate, sleeps in there all hours when he is not going outside for his walks and playtime... as long as the door is open. Latching the door triggers anxiety and the bark... bark... barking.

I have seen great advice for dealing with separation anxiety and crates and my husband and I want to give it a try. My approach is to set up a training program for both of us to follow, so we can build Skipper's tolerance for being shut in his crate, especially when we leave the room and finally, leave the house.

Reminder - he is a 10 year old fox terrier, who is very set in his ways. We are just now starting to think about his training because the puppy/adolescent has had much more urgent needs.

We are now ready to organize Skipper's crate training, knowing that any mistakes are going to take a long time to fix.

Any advice on designing the training? We are using clickers and Skipper is treat motivated. I was wondering if there was a 'crate game' we could play with him, to help him get over his phobia of having the crate door closed.

Thanks!

You've rewarded the barking.

" .... he doesn't stop until he is let out."

Do you see what you've taught the dog? Bark bark bark and eventually you will get what you want.

Have you loaded your marker for this guy? And then thought about how to mark/reward for silence in the middle of a bark bark bark session? (This can take some patience before you catch the wanted behavior. Worth it! )

This "He uses the same method to get attention when he needs to go out to pee. Mostly we take him out frequently enough that he doesn't have to bark at all. Just the odd time" is completely counterproductive for you, under the bark bark bark circumstances. In order not to even have this in the picture in any way, loaded as it is with mixed messages, I'd be 100% committed to his never having to ask to go out. I don't know how I would ever train a new potty request along with quiet, so number one would be my commitment to his not needing a potty request.

All JMO. Others will probably have better ideas.

This can all be made better, though. I have mostly pre-owned set-in-their-bad-ways dogs. You can do it.

First of all, I want to say congratulations on your new additions. I really respect the fact that you took home the two. Can’t say enough about you being open to it and in position to do that. It warms my heart to think these guys met and bonded under not the best circumstances and both friends got to leave to a new home, together. I’m so glad there are people like you out there.

So this kind of training can be pretty individual for each dog depending on what the behaviors are and the severity – age, previous experiences and energy levels would also come into play.

Ideally, I'm sure you know, you want to make sure a dog is well exercised before you put him into a crate and as Connie mentioned, all potty requirements have been taken care of before you start working on the barking issue.

So how bad are we talking about? Is it kind of a loud temper tantrum or does he get worked up enough that you think he’s going to hurt himself, pawing and biting at the crate?

He looks pretty comfortable in there, of course, his feet are hanging out the door. You can see that’s a quite a security thing for him.

Now that you mentioned his feet hanging out the door I have started watching how he positions himself in his crate more closely. Sometimes he is tucked right back inside it, other times, like now, he has his nose hanging out over the threshold.

We do make sure both dogs are well-exercised and pottied before crating when we are going out. The funny thing about Skipper is that there are times when we go out and come back and he has slept the whole time. Then there are the times we go out and come back and he is barking: from inside his crate, from outside the room where Jethro's crate is (they are in separate rooms, Jethro's crate is in a studio, Skipper's crate is in the livingroom), sometimes from the low enclosure gate we use to keep the dogs from crowding the front door.

It is distressing to see him up and barking when we come home, and I try to stay calm and ignore him (to not reward the behaviour), while still acting like I meant to take him out to potty. And he does have to go.

With regards to rewarding the behaviour: if the barking is a compulsive mind-state, and he does not interrupt himself, do we just let him bark until he finally stops from exhaustion? I used the "click in the silence after the bark" to teach Jethro Quiet when he is having an unwanted reaction. It's tricky, because the wrong timing makes it seem like I am clicking the barking!

I will try to identify the length of time that becomes an issue. The thing about potty is that he can generally hold it much longer than the amount of time we have left the house.

Hmmmm.

 Quote: CJ Barrett

So how bad are we talking about? Is it kind of a loud temper tantrum or does he get worked up enough that you think he’s going to hurt himself, pawing and biting at the crate?

It's not a temper tantrum, and he's not hurting himself physically. It is the anxiety that is troubling. He gets so tense and upset (trembling). Also, it appears to unsettle Jethro to have Skipper barking like that, he (Jethro) sometimes seems a little over-excited when we let him out.

The longest time we crate them and leave the house was probably last night, when I left the house at 5 pm and we didn't get back until midnight. That was an unusual absence. Generally they are left alone in the house 2 - 3 hours, 4 at the most. My husband and I both work from home, so there is usually someone around, even if we are working in another part of the house.

 Quote: cj barrett

So this kind of training can be pretty individual for each dog depending on what the behaviors are and the severity – age, previous experiences and energy levels would also come into play.

Skipper was at the shelter for a month, and was barking in his cell. He is 10.5 years (best guess) and generally pretty calm for a fox terrier (except when there is a b-a-l-l).

When I tried giving him a transition object, like a kong with peanut butter, he would know we were leaving and it seemed to make him worse. The best solution so far has been to say, "Git" and point to his crate. He knows then that his attentions are not wanted and goes and lays down and goes to sleep. Generally speaking, that is his attachment off switch. If he starts dogging my heels for dinner or attention, that will settle him.

We are still trying to figure out his training needs. Admittedly, we have been focused on Jethro because his needs were so immediate and serious. But now that he is settling down (a lot! thanks!) we are turning our attention to Skipper.

As I said, there is usually someone home, or the house is empty for such short periods that it hasn't been an issue (since we stopped trying to close the crate door). We would like to make him comfortable with the door closed, though, for many reasons, so perhaps that is our first training objective. Once we have the door closed we can start working on leaving the room, and finally leaving the house.

My concern is that it is very easy to forget what we are doing, and become inconsistent on building the progression from easy to more difficult circumstances. If I have some sort of schedule, that might help me to stay on track.

I'd try teaching a solid calm down outside the crate. Basically teach him to relax on command. Practice it several times a day and use high value reward. Once it starts to be a default behavior (he offers the behavior to get what he wants) transfer it to the crate.

When he'll go into the crate and offer the down, close the door, mark it, then open the door and reward. Then gradually start to keep the door closed longer and reward by dropping the treats through the crate. When he is fine with this, then I think you should be able to transfer the reward to something like a stuffed kong.

"With regards to rewarding the behaviour: if the barking is a compulsive mind-state, and he does not interrupt himself, do we just let him bark until he finally stops from exhaustion? I used the "click in the silence after the bark" to teach Jethro Quiet when he is having an unwanted reaction. It's tricky, because the wrong timing makes it seem like I am clicking the barking!"

I would practice timing with another, anxiety-free command. Timing does take practice.

And I don't think he will bark himself into exhaustion because he's going to wonder why you are a statue in front of his crate, and he will pause to look at you ("WTF?").

Have you loaded the clicker very clearly?

Have you calmly latched and unlatched the crate (him inside) multiple times for random spans to minimize the "meaning" of the closed door? I would start with such a short time that he cannot even react. Also actually calmly leaving and coming back before the dog can react? (This all has to be very matter-of-fact and calm.)

Skipper does understand the clicker, it is loaded, he will do a sit, and a down for it.

I've started with your idea of calmly latching and unlatching the door while he is inside. He was lying there looking calm, but his eyes got this beady look to them, and then, when I unlatched, he gave me a lip lick. That tells me that moment of door closing and latching was a challenge for him. I am going to keep it very, very short to start.

As far as teaching Skipper a relax command, that is a challenge. When he is up and on his feet, he is pretty tense. He will sit, and down, but he is always ready to sproing back to standing.

The only time his body is completely drained of tension is when he is in his crate. If I click at that moment (I have tried this) he tenses up, looking for the reward. I think I need a voice marker, something gentle, and then I can toss him a treat, but he hasn't gone into alert mode. I don't know.

You know, people comment all the time on how 'relaxed' Skipper is for a fox terrier. I think they have been interpreting his stillness for relaxed. I think maybe he is actually pretty stiff most of the time, but he looks calm because he isn't going squirrley.

I'm looking forward to the challenge! Thanks for your coaching on this!

 Quote:

As far as teaching Skipper a relax command, that is a challenge. When he is up and on his feet, he is pretty tense. He will sit, and down, but he is always ready to sproing back to standing.

---
I think I need a voice marker, something gentle, and then I can toss him a treat, but he hasn't gone into alert mode. I don't know.

With my dog his default down is a down with his head between his paws. He is also a dog that is a bit on edge and ready to spring. It didn't start calm but as he acted calm, he calmed down. A soothing "goooood" would be a good marker to feed calm behavior. Catch him being relaxed if you can. Keep a pocket full of treats and when he relaxes near you for whatever reason mark and reward it.

A book I would highly recommend would be "Control Unleashed" It is geared toward agility dogs, but has many, many good ideas for training a dog to be calm.