This is my first post--but I've admired the website and could use some advice on my 7 month old spayed Border Collie. I got her 3 months ago from a shelter. She is sometimes dog aggressive, especially towards labs. She has been through a puppy socialization class and a basic obedience class. She was never aggressive towards people until just the other day--I was in Petsmart with her and two boys came around the corner and bent down to pet her. She was laying down. As they reached over her she growled and leapt at their faces, though she never opened her mouth and didn't bite them. This really scared me--she usually is so happy to meet people. If someone comes to the door she barks until I let them in, and then is very friendly. My question is, can this be trained out of her? Why did she do this? I'm not willing to have a dog that I can't trust--do you think that with training she will be trustworthy?

Sounds like a dog with some questionable nerves. At 7 months, I don't think its too late for this dog. You must teach her that it is absolutely 100% unacceptable to show aggressive behavior towards anyone. I would get Ed's "basic dog obedience" tape and a prong collar. The tape will show you the 3 phases of dog training and how to administer fair corrections. that is the key. Fair corrections followed by praise.

Your last question "with training will she be trustworthy?"

Not only does obedience training make a dog easier to live with, but it builds a bond between the dog and the owner/trainer. That bond creates trust. I don't put a lot of stock in "puppy kindergarten" or "group obedience classes." That is why I recommend Ed's tape. It will clearly explain the proper way to fully train a dog. A dog with weak nerves(or any dog really) will benefit tremendously from this. You should continue to socialize the dog. I would use a muzzle in public. As time goes by and the dog becomes more confident and is trained the muzzle won't be neccessary. Good Luck. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok here is my two cents worth. You have only had this dog for approximately 3 months. In my opinion not nearly enough time to cement a trusting bond. If this dog was in a shelter I doubt very seriously if you have a good idea of what this dogs background was prior to you taking her home. She could have experienced some negative things in the 4 months prior to you getting her and are now just beginning to see her true temperment.

In my opinion you are going to have to work harder at showing this dog that you are the pack leader and that she can trust you to protect her when she feels threatened. Otherwise I think she will not respect you're role and take it upon herself to defend herself against anything that she feels threatened by. I have never heard of a dog being dog agressive towards only one specific breed such as a LAB and believe that if they are agressive towards one breed they will be agressive towards all breeds.

I also agree with Chuck. Sounds like you have some work to do so now the question is are you willing to do the work needed?

Good Luck!

I think it's obvious what happened here. The dog was lying down, in a submissive or vulnerable position. The kids were bending over her, a very dominant and potentially threatening posture. This situation scared her, with these strange kids suddenly looming over her, reaching toward her.

That doesn't excuse her behavior, but the children should not have approached a strange dog in this fashion in the first place. If these were my kids, I'd have a serious talk with them about the appropriate way to approach a dog you don't know.

What I would recommend is to really work on establishing a bond of trust with her, based upon your position as the leader. Not only will this help you keep her under control, but it will make her feel more secure. If you don't know much about leading a dog, you need to do some serious research. Also, obedience, obedience, obedience! Work with her on her training! And lastly, socialization. Since she usually responds well to meeting new people, keep it up. Just be sure that from now on, you supervise a bit better, and don't let people surprise her like this!

I've found that with nervous dogs like this, short, frequent training sessions with positive motivation is really the best. They can easily get distracted and stop paying attention, and if you're too heavy handed, they simply roll over in submission instead of following the command. I've found that breaking obedience up throughout the day, like working on the stay for about five minutes, then an hour or so later, working on the sit for five minutes, etc, works much better than one longer session.

I agree with JParker that the dog was probably startled and I also agree with the advice given. I will add though that plenty of times a dog can be startled but the dog must not react in the way your pup did. My 4 year old daughter will startle my 9 month old pup while he is sleeping by stumbling over him, but he NEVER reacts agressively.(I must add that I spend a considerable amount of time "training" my kids how to behave around my dogs!) Now he is a very confident dog but my point is that even if the dog is startled, she must be tought that aggression is NEVER an option. At 7 months, in a strange environment,it can be excused and corrected. If not corrected it will be a problem later on. Now I'm not in any way suggesting unfair heavy handed methods. Do what JParker said, establish yourself as a fair leader. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I spend a lot of time with border collies through herding and unfortunately, there are some very huge issues with dog and people aggression in this breed. Having said that it is also one of the easier breeds to 'control' as they are usually very tuned in to people and want to please them very much.

I have been at trials where they will be a pack of border collies let out together and before long a fight will break out. Amazingly enough most times the fight can be stopped by intervention with the owners voice (sometimes with them physically picking them up).

It is extremely important that you do not baby this dog and do work with it to understand that behaviour like that is unaccepatable. Most working border collie owners will not let their dogs get away with behaviour like that right from the beginning.

I'm glad you brought that up, Shandar. Every single Border Collie I have ever known, which is not many, but certainly a few, has been a very high strung, nervous dog. The ones I have known are all very dominant and assertive with other dogs, and very nervous around people, but will generally show submission toward people rather than aggression, unless pushed to a point where the feel they have to defend themselves.
I think Otraynor should find a breed club with people who know a lot about training Border Collies. Like any breed, they have their own style, and BCs are not the easiest for many people to deal with, at least not as pets. Working dog people will generally find a BC to be smart as a whip, and a fast, eager learner. Companion pet BC owners, however, may find them to be quite challenging.

It is actually not a breed that I recommend for a 'family' dog (remember in Canada, we only have the working border collie. THey are not registerable with CKC so we don't generally have a 'watered' down version).

Here is an example of a breed that has kept it's working ability at a cost to other aspects of the breed. Working ability is everything! Temperament to dogs and people does not matter and I know few who look or ask about any health problems .

Having said that there are some very nice border collies out there as well. ONe of my freind's border collies is best freinds with my dog. Interestingly enuoght when they first met, the border collie ran up to her growling and bit her....she in turn bit her back. I felt bad as she was only 6 months old, but the owner said, she needs to learn. Now these 2 dogs LOVE each other!

I personally think you could still clean up this breed without compromising the working ability. But....as mentioned they are usually quite biddable dogs despite thier aggression thus it is often not seen as something to worry about. However, in the wrong homes....it can be a problem

I have no idea what the temperament is on the dog posted here, so I don't want to 'scare' the person...but it is something they need to be aware of and something to work on.

Well, they're certainly not for the average family, that's for sure. They need so much more mental and physical stimulation than the average family is equipped to provide. Without a "job", these dogs are guaranteed to have behavior problems. That's why you see so many in shelters.