Jonathan Frost wrote 04/05/2011 02:59 PM Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... #325787 - 04/05/2011 02:59 PM
Jonathan Frost Webboard User Reg: 02-27-2011 Posts: 88 Loc: Offline	Hello all. I have a 10 month old Aussie male. I got "The Power of Training Dogs with Food" a few weeks ago. I wish I'd gotten it sooner. I realize my dog (Gunner) wasn't "engaged" at all. I know the video says the dog has to be engaged before you go on to behaviors, etc. Even though he knows a lot of things (sit, stay, roll over, etc.) I am trying to follow the video. Mostly we are working on engagement. He's starting to get it. My question is, should he be engaged the whole time I am with him? Or only when I want him to be? For example, if we go for a walk should he be looking at me waiting for the mark and treat the whole time, or should I let him just walk? What I do now is walk him on a long leash, and any time he comes back to me, looks at me, or comes when I call him I mark and treat, but then he continues the walk. Should he be "engaged" the entire time? Any advice appreciated. Sorry for the long post. Jon
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HILARIE COBY wrote 04/05/2011 03:12 PM Re: Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... [Re: Jonathan Frost ] #325789 - 04/05/2011 03:12 PM
HILARIE COBY Webboard User Reg: 12-12-2010 Posts: 248 Loc: San Francisco Bay Area Offline	..that's a good point Jonathan! I had the same experience (wished I had watched "The Power.." before "Basic OB"!) -it changed my training approach and effectiveness immensely. More experienced folks will speak to your engagement application question. But for us, I mix it up. I strike out at a good almost race walking clip for 2 miles twice a day. So, I ask for "eyes" (watch command) and commence "foos" work for brief periods during this training walk and then definately let her continue on with loose leash walking. Then I'll ask for a sit in motion with a right about turn -like that. Then a stop outside the vet's office for a long down stay while I go inside and spy on her (yes, the girls are used to us there!) -then continue brisk walking -so it ends up being a combination of good, fun exercise and focused training engagement -does that make sense? Her reward for a particularly correct (by our beginner standards) focused heel is that she gets to go sit and look at the rooster across the street -motivation and all!
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Barbara Schuler wrote 04/05/2011 03:42 PM Re: Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... [Re: Jonathan Frost ] #325796 - 04/05/2011 03:42 PM
Barbara Schuler Webboard User Reg: 01-15-2009 Posts: 5090 Loc: Lanexa Virginia Offline	Hi Jonathan, Trust me... your's is not a long post. If you are training for a formal/working heel, yes, the goal would be for the dog to be focused on you the entire time, but you work up to that. If however, you are looking for a nice, loose-lease walk, no, the dog would not be expected to be focused on you the entire time. It sounds like you are on the right track. What are your plans for your pup? Pics - we love puppy pics. ETA: What Hillary said is fine too! You can certainly mix it up, just give that command for when you want him to look.
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Lauren Jeffery wrote 04/05/2011 07:38 PM Re: Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... [Re: Barbara Schuler ] #325832 - 04/05/2011 07:38 PM
Lauren Jeffery Webboard User Reg: 01-16-2010 Posts: 1389 Loc: Offline	For me, a mark of good engagement in a pet is when the dog will respond to his name by making eye contact in the face of moderate to high distraction. Not neccesarily the biggest distractions you can think of, but one that may cause a little excitability or concern in the dog. When you get there it feels really good, and IME it is a place where you can really get started on some good obedience. Sounds like you guys are off to the right start. Excellent
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Ramachandran Subramanian wrote 04/05/2011 08:08 PM Re: Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... [Re: Lauren Jeffery ] #325839 - 04/05/2011 08:08 PM
Ramachandran Subramanian Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2004 Posts: 809 Loc: Chennai, India Offline	I live in an extremely high distraction neighbourhood. Actually extremely high distraction country. I think it is rather impractical to ask the dog to look at me all the time. They just are spatially aware of where their shoulders are with relation to my left knee. Both kaiser and helga, take a check every few paces but keep walking alongside while observing the world around them. An alert dog that is aware of what is happening around it is more useful to me. I am not sure of US competition rules, but if you are looking for a normal house dog, then there is no need for the dog to keep looking at you AS LONG AS it will respond to you if you call it's name, or look command no matter what the distraction is.
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Barbara Schuler wrote 04/05/2011 08:41 PM Re: Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... [Re: Lauren Jeffery ] #325847 - 04/05/2011 08:41 PM
Barbara Schuler Webboard User Reg: 01-15-2009 Posts: 5090 Loc: Lanexa Virginia Offline	Quote: Lauren Jeffery For me, a mark of good engagement in a pet is when the dog will respond to his name by making eye contact in the face of moderate to high distraction. Not neccesarily the biggest distractions you can think of, but one that may cause a little excitability or concern in the dog. When you get there it feels really good, and IME it is a place where you can really get started on some good obedience. Sounds like you guys are off to the right start. Excellent I think this is a great point Jon... Being ABLE to get that engagement when asked for, under moderate distractions and up (eventually) is very satifying. Doesn't mean you need to expect it ALL the time, but being able to GET IT when asked is a great goal and you should have no problem getting there.
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Lauren Jeffery wrote 04/05/2011 08:59 PM Re: Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... [Re: Barbara Schuler ] #325851 - 04/05/2011 08:59 PM
Lauren Jeffery Webboard User Reg: 01-16-2010 Posts: 1389 Loc: Offline	It sounds simple but a lot of people cant get their dogs to do it. Im not talking about holding the eye contact, but a simple acknowledgement that the dog is ready to be given a command. Ram, have you worked from the food video at all?
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Melissa Hau wrote 04/05/2011 09:04 PM Re: Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... [Re: Jonathan Frost ] #325853 - 04/05/2011 09:04 PM
Melissa Hau Webboard User Reg: 04-11-2008 Posts: 234 Loc: Dallas, TX Offline	This is what I do with my 5 yo GSD.... If I want to start a training session, I will ask her, "are you ready?" From that moment on, I expect her to be engaged with me until I say, "Finished." The sessions usually last 3-5 minutes. If she "checks out," she is corrected (verbally, e-collar, or pop on the leash). If I were just walking her (we usually go for a 2-mile walk in the evenings), she doesn't have to be engaged with me. But let's say I see a jogger coming my way, I will put her in a heel. Once she is released from the heel, she is free to do whatever else she was doing, her engagement with me in this case only lasts from the "heel" command to the "Yes" release. If I wanted to start a training session in a middle of a walk, I would ask her, "are you ready?" Do 5 minutes of OB, then tell her "finished" and go back to walking leisurely. Just my 2 cents
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Bob Scott wrote 04/05/2011 09:11 PM Re: Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... [Re: Melissa Hau ] #325856 - 04/05/2011 09:11 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	The dog that is constantly engaged (eye contact) when not under a command is unusual. To expect it all the time can burn out the average dog. Walks should be walks. Toss in an occasional heel with eye contact if you wish but don't expect or demand it all the time. A walk on a loose leash should be different then a formal heel. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Ramachandran Subramanian wrote 04/05/2011 09:22 PM Re: Help with "Power of Training With Food" dvd... [Re: Lauren Jeffery ] #325858 - 04/05/2011 09:22 PM
Ramachandran Subramanian Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2004 Posts: 809 Loc: Chennai, India Offline	Yes, I have worked with the food video. I found it very useful, but doing what michael ellis asks you to do is like attending an aerobics class. 10 minutes of making drive and I am pooped out :P
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