after alot of thought and discusion, I have realized that the time to sch. Pisa is almost impossible.
I have been trying to go to the schutzhund club since I got Pisa, made it the weekend before I got her, and have not been back since in the last month and a half, time driving(1hr one way) and work (not even the busy season yet)and farm obligations, and life seem to have different designs for me.

Anyways, not here to cry.... I am able to spend a couple hours a day (split up of course) with my pup, and get my big dogs out for a daily walk and play.

It was the obidence portion of sch that I liked most, so that is what we will work on.

Q#1-Since I plan on no formal competing, I'm wondering if I need the precision in the posistions, or just keep it fun and get the motions close.

Q#2-My other question is stopping my little aligator from chomping me (not to mention all the blue jean and sweat shirts now full of little holes and a few really big rips) with out it harming our bond or shatering her trust in me who untill now rewarded a good ankle bite with a play session

If your going to train anything, you may as well do your best to train it well Dave. If you start off accepting less, you'll just end up with a lot less.

As far as biting you, the rule is no teeth on you. Hopefully you can accomplish it through playing with her. My shepherd was pretty easy, if he got my hand or anything, the game stops with a 'NO'
He's crazy enough for a toy that he picked it pretty quick.

My Rott, he got corrected.

Dave, If I remember correctly you purchased a WL rottie with the intention of training in Schutzhund, and have a pretty driven pup on your hands. I worry that this is not going to be the type of dog who is happy just working in obedience and then going inside and laying at your feet. Are there other options for you? Agility or flyball?

You don't have to go to a club to train for the Schutzhund BH.

Keep working on it, and join one of the national Schutzhund organizations so you can get a scorebook for your dog.

When the dog is old enough, and you've mastered the obedience, you can go and get your BH. Even if that's all you do, it's more than most people do, and it gives you a set goal to work towards.

And, if your circumstances change down the road, you'll have the BH out of the way.

Additionally, once you have the BH out of the way, you could continue to work the obedience, and pursue tracking and obedience titles.

You don't *have* to do bitework to compete in Schutzhund, there are titles that don't involve bitework.

You could, if you wanted, train both tracking and obedience without a club. It's the bitework that creates the *absolute necessity* for a helper.

Worth a shot, right? What have you got to lose?

Dear Dave: i am unable to take my dogs to mixed breed competition for obedience, but I still feel it is very important to train my dogs to perform their moves with precision. The reason I feel this way is that it challenges my dogs and myself to train as best as I can, and expect all they can give. My dogs seem to enjoy it more when I expect more out of them. And get bored quick when or if I let them slide.

I would say even if you are not competing, go for the gold with your pups and challenge them. It is work but why not do the best you can for and with them? Believe me I understand about time constraints, I face them daily and some days I feel all I do is go from task to task, until I go to bed. But I wouldn't want to settle for a lack luster performance from myself and or my dogs. sharon
sharon

 Quote: Aaron Myracle

You don't *have* to do bitework to compete in Schutzhund, there are titles that don't involve bitework.

Aaron, I had no idea this was possible. This is actually very exciting and inspiring news to me.

I really like the schutzhund obedience and we have a lot of fun with tracking, but the bitework is out of the question for Vince.

I wonder if these aspects of the competition are available in Canada too or do you know, is this pretty exclusive to the States? The nearest club I've found is a good 4 hours away and I've never contacted them.

 Quote: CJ Barrett

 Quote: Aaron Myracle

You don't *have* to do bitework to compete in Schutzhund, there are titles that don't involve bitework.

Aaron, I had no idea this was possible. This is actually very exciting and inspiring news to me.

I really like the schutzhund obedience and we have a lot of fun with tracking, but the bitework is out of the question for Vince.

Ditto! The biggest thing that has kept me from pursuing Schutzhund is the bitework aspect. My dogs are totally unsuited for that, but I really like the Schutzhund style obedience exercises, and I'm intrigued about pursuing the BH.

Aaron, would you be willing to provide us with links to the national organizations you mention for neophytes like me?

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, Dave! I'm guessing this would be info you'd be interested in, too.

at the risk of sounding like a flake.....

last night I was like a little kid who only got socks for Christmas . I have been interested in sch. for over a decade, and after doing a decent job with our mastiffs I had the confidence to get a working dog,
we probably spent a hundred hours reserching working lines, got my puppy, made her socilization a part time job on top of the 2 dedicated hours a day, plus grooming time, feeding, potty breaks, ect ect...

So, this morning on our walk I just talked the whole time and when we got back to the house I said.. if you want this my little girl, work with me and I'll somehow make the time.....
we went inside, and she showed me... she downed 4 times in a row, sit to stand. any way....
she was born to do this, and sch is the test for the breed
My better half is now on board with the time involved (this little girl is a time burgler) but onward, and another thanks to this web site and every one on it and all the input