Hello,
My male, non-neutered Malinois is now 10 months old. We have been doing clicker training since he was 8 weeks, however at around 8 months old he started marking and is more interested in sniffing etc.

He is not food motivated in the least (have tried many options), but he does have high prey drive and will play tug with a pretty good "out" (taught as per Michael Ellis DVD). My challenge is that even tug/toy is not enough to get his attention if he sees other people/dogs (when out of the yard) or if in the yard, is more tuned to sniffing.

Is this more a stage to get through (like the mouthy stages in early puppyhood), or are there options I may be missing to try and get his focus?

I'm aware of the DVD's, however funds are tight at the moment as I recently purchased the Tug DVD.

Thanks for any input.

Nancy, is your dog eating at all? I guess he does, otherwise he'd starved by now

If you want to increase his food drive just don't feed him between sessions. Works like a charm. You could start by fasting him for a day. If there are no medical problems that require frequent feeding or special diet, of course.

Red Barn dog food rolls cut into small cubes make perfect training treats and provide balanced nutrition unlike hotdogs and other treats not intended as complete diet.

Another thing you might try is crating the pup for an hour or 2 before the sessions.

Try training under fewer distractions.

Don't let him to self-satisfy on toys or socializing or any games that don't involve you - manage how he spends his energy and attention.

Hope this helps.

eta: If you bring him out and he does not engage with you put him up and try again later.

Edited by Ana Kozlowsky (05/01/2011 09:21 PM)
Edit reason: eta

Welcome to my world since forever with Jethro. I tried something new today. Jethro is food motivated, but only up to a certain point and when he picks up a scent trail it is a real pain getting him to give me attention. This morning, instead of trying to pull him back to me with the leash, or fruitlessly trying to call him back to me, I just stood still, standing on the leash. This is a 12' double sewn leash, my favourite because it gives us some flexibility without letting Jethro get too far away from me.

Here is how it worked: We would be walking loose leash, and Jethro would pick up a scent. At first, he tries to keep the leash loose, while he tries to get closer to the scent. So, right at this stage, I dropped the leash to the ground and stepped on it. This way, I wasn't pulling against Jethro, he was pulling against my foot - which doesn't have the same give as when I have the leash in my hands. It didn't take long for him to realize we weren't going anywhere and I was waiting for him to do something before we would move forward. So, he turned back to me, Click. That's a start, but not enough to get me to budge. Okay, then, he Sits (no command from me). Click. You are on the right track, but that isn't enough, either. Then he gives me eye contact. Click. Yessss. I want your eyes. He figures now we can go! And pops up onto his feet to start moving. Nope. Here is the deal. When I stand still, you are going to turn back to me, sit yourself down, look me in the eye, and wait until I say, "Okay". And then we are going to move forward again. The treat is moving forward. The treat is getting to explore the environment *with me*.

Remember the coyote last night? Well there was scent everywhere and Jethro was getting worked up about it. So I instituted this new policy. It was so cool, because within a few blocks he had figured it out. When I stop, we aren't going to go anywhere until I say Okay, and I'm not going to say that, unless certain things are done.

For once, my arms and shoulders were not aching with exhaustion from trying to correct him, my voice was not tired from constantly giving verbal cues and commands, and my treat bag was full because I hadn't been luring him to get him to pay attention to me. I didn't say a word. And he figured it out.

It felt super, and we were having a good game of tug on the *empty* softball field until my phone rang with a call from my husband telling me Skipper got bit...

 Quote: jenny arntzen

When I stand still, you are going to turn back to me, sit yourself down, look me in the eye, and wait until I say, "Okay".

You are trying to free-shape this sequence? And marking with a click but not rewarding after the marker?

Why don't you give Jethro commands and tell him exactly what you want him to do instead of confusing him and giving empty markers.

Each command of the sequence is taught separately, of course.

If there is no reward (primary reinforcer) after the marker (secondary reinforcer) the marker loses its value.

That was my point. We had been working on all these behaviours separately, including using leash tension to turn back to me. It was fun to put them altogether into a sequence and see it work. I'm not an experienced trainer, so every step of the way is new to me. Now I think I understand, at a very rudimentary level, how back chaining must work (not that I am anywhere near that organized).

Jethro keeps teaching me to be a better handler and trainer.

I actually like Jenny's advice, and use something similar in Shelby's training. Her favorite reward is motion and being allowed to act like an idiot and zoom around. Sure, she'll work for treats, and sometimes even toys, but once she realizes that doing XYZ results in the 'free' command, boy there's no stopping her. She'll work until the day is long, just itching to be allowed to be a nuthead.

Very interesting. Would it be possible to see a video of training a new behavior using this method?

Hopefully we are not talking compulsion training with the OP's 10 months old puppy?

eta: The original problem is with engagement. Marker training and positive reinforcement seems to be a better way to get the puppy engaged even though the compulsion will be used later.

Thank you for the replies. Sorry for the delayed response, but work was very busy.

Ana:
Yes, he's eating, although we have had gastro issues with his diet and are working to get things regulated in that dept. He has become more food/treat oriented in the past few days so I'm able to do more clicker training in the house/yard.

He is crated or in an x-pen. He gets tethered-to-me sessions in the house and is always on leash or long-line when outside.

"Try training under fewer distractions." Near next to impossible as he is aware of everything. It would be nice if I had an empty room to use, but that is not an option.

"If you bring him out and he does not engage with you put him up and try again later." No luck there. Tried it and he is simply too keen on sniffing/marking and or scanning the environment. Usually a toy/tug game will get his attention, but even that won't interest him if the sniffing's better (in his mind anyway!).