I was talking to a guy who has just got a 10 month old GSD. The bitch seems to be hand sly if he raises his hand or voice she goes into the swauting, ears back, and tail tucked submissive posture. When she comes to him she assumes this same posture. She seems to have a food drive but little if any prey drive.

She is a good looking black and cream who is going through a destruction stage, she pulled down his TV cable line from the near ground connectors to the wall jack, she digging and has jumped up and knock his 5yr old daughter down, standing over her. He grabbed the dog and slung it away, shouting to the dog that it should never do that again. He questioned is there any hope for this dog? I wonder that since she apparently was neglected for a while that the drive can be re discovered. If it was taught not to chase or bark at fast moving item, I think it can be taught to enjoy chasing again. He said that if you throw a ball or wave a rag she will just look curious but no action.

I was wondering if the food filled kong, might not be the key here. Let her pull a peiece of weiner out then wave it in front of her get a rise, after you work her up. Toss it a short distance so she can retreive it faster. Build on this. What do you guys think? He thinking about giving her away or taking her to shelter because of the incident with the child, he fears she maybe a fear bitter? :rolleyes: Maybe?

So this guy just got the pup from a shelter how long ago?
She does sound submissive; harsh treatment such as slinging her around and yelling at her will not help that. Setting her up for success will boost her confidence. Obedience training, keeping in mind her age and what she is realistically capable of at this point, is the best way to do that.
To me, the child knocking-down-incident, just from your description, since I was not there to see it, sounds more like the puppy jumped up on the child, probably as greeting or play, and the child fell over. Not a surprising result. You haven't said anything that would lead me to believe that the dog was actually attacking the child.

Crate, crate, crate...

Soft submissive dogs get into trouble too, so the best way to avoid this is to give them a safe place to be. If your buddy isn't up to that she will probably be best off in a new home.

If she shows interest in toys it may just be that she doesn't know what to do. My male had NO interest in toys, balls, or tugs when I brought him home. Once he figured out it was ok to play with me, he caught on very quick. If the drive is there it will come out. Play low with a dog like this, just like you would with a puppy. Ball on a long string like a cat toy. little pops, etc. If it is there it is there, if it is not food will be the way to go.

Anyone who has seen my boy would find it hard to believe that he used to RUN AWAY from balls. Now he is a ball nut.

Also, since she is hand shy... Have him keep her on a light leash and flat collar in the house. That way if he needs to grab her he dosn't have to feed her fears of going at her head to grab her.

With rescues it is not unusual to see a different dog emerge after a month or so in a new home. Time, patience, and understanding go a long way. She is young yet.

He had her for about two months, he beleives she is a Show dog American Shepard. He has another GSD that is a sable female protection trained, that he has helped train and he is/has worked as a decoy in some protection clubs. His goal because of her paper work???? was to have another good protection dog. Until these recent events, the child incident was as he saw it a pecking order thing, the dog/puppy purposely knocked the child over. He didn't confirm that a growl or any other aggression was shown.

He did say that his voice (a little guy with a projecting voice, that he is proud of) and any hand motions close to her cause the submissive react. Is the dog a fear bitter, I think its way to soon to tell, from his verbal discriptions.

Slow, confident building, patience bonding is what you are suggesting so far. And that it is not to late to be sure if there is no fire. I wrote down the name of the predigree of this dog, he seems proud of it but, Show AM GSD come on.

I'll find it and post when I get home.

If it is in fact an am bred show shepherd I wouldn't waste my time trying to do anything in the protection area.

Sounds like your buddy has some issues of dominance of his own he needs to work on. Some soft dogs do not take well to loud voices. She sounds like one of them. If he wants to bring her out of her shell, he will have to learn to control his voice. Just because a dog is soft does not in any way mean it will be a fear biter. Submission and fear aggression do not always go together.

Deanna is right fear and agression do not always go together. BUT the dog has definetely NOT had proper socialisation and that is VERY hard to achieve after ten months old (usually not possible). Doing any protection work with a dog that is not well socialised is dangerous and stupid. Many a sweet and submissive pet have BECOME fear biters because of protection work.

Ex. Dog has no guts + dogs owner activates and encourages prey drive and biting= dog runs from burglar and bites child (not in that order and not necessarily on the same day).
Tell this guy to never yell at the dog (although I can't think of a dog you SHOULD yell at) and to be gentle with her. His goal should be a nice pet (and maybe a ribbon if she's "showy" later).
Forget about protection. Not all dogs have it in them and it could really do more harm than good.
The best medicine for her?
1. Walks, walks, walks, walks. Start out in quiet areas and gradually move to noisy ones.
2. Love, love, love, love.

That what I was thinking when he told me that she was show am shepard. This is the problem he trying to get her to do something that she has been breed away from. He knows this but for some reason, I guest the way she looked and that she was practically free. He thought that since he did such a good job with his first dog, he thought that he could bring this dog around. One of her sibbling does show good prey drive, but that doesn't mean he has good nerves or can handle stress. Some times we can get full of ourselves. I'll tell him the bad news, she can be a good pet if he .... : <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm a little concerned about the childs safety with this dog. It might work if the child could give the dog commands, proving to dog that in the pecking order, dog is at the bottom. A child of 5 could easily give commands under the parents supervision. I agree with the board, this dog is too submissive to be a protection dog. She can just sit around looking pretty.