Hello,

I have just discovered your web page and I must say you have given me an enormous sense of relief. My rot just bit my neighbor and I would like to tell you the circumstances, describe what we are doing and ask your opinion on our course of action.


We adopted the dog. He had been abandoned. He was two and a half. We have had him for one year and four months. When we adopted him, he was very growly because he did not really understand affection nor did he really want to listen to any form of commands. We obedience trained him - I have had rots in the past - and he has become a lovely dog who is really friendly towards people, but a little shy with other dogs - he hides behind my legs and if provoked by another dog barks and I think would fight back if attacked, but we have tried to prevent that.

His only fault so far has been extreme separation anxiety, until the other day. I had tied him to the fence outside as it is a communal area and left him with his ball. The neighbor went to pet the dog and he bit her on the wrist and, when she pulled away, the leg. The sound that came out of him was enough to freeze your blood, but as soon as he saw me (I was out there like a shot) he was wagging his tail and waiting for me to come and play with him. The strange thing is that he did not growl at her or lower his ears or anything. He just waited until she removed her hand from his head and went for her like greased lightning. It was not until her hand was in front of his mouth that he made the sound. The neighbor, thank goodness, loves the dog and does not want to see him euthanized if at all possible.

So, we immediately contacted an Animal Behavioral Specialist (a PHD) who has described some drugs because of the separation anxiety attacks. She will be evaluating him in our home and putting him through a series of tests, which should take about one and a half hours. She will then prescribe a behavioral correction program.

My husband and I were very concerned about the drugs and Ed said that he does not believe in them, so that has given us some relief.

In the meantime, we are trying to train him to a wire basket muzzle so that he will enjoy wearing one. We feel that perhaps the program will demand necessary strong re-training of this dog and we are prepared for that, but just wanted him to like the muzzle before that begins. But also in the communal areas of our condo through which we have to pass when walking the dog, we feel that he should be muzzled to be on the very safest side. We have been feeding him snacks through the wires so that he puts his mouth in voluntarily and when we think he is completely comfortable, then begin to use the muzzle.



I know that this is just one instance, but it is really very shocking and absolutely unacceptable. I just want to know if we are on the right track. We do not want to ruin this dog. We are prepared to spend all the time and money necessary to help. He is very friendly and still behaves like a puppy at times, but this dreadful "attack" shocked us and we feel the need to deal with it immediately and severely (and I don't mean beating the dog, I just mean being hard if the specialist requires that we be.) We just don't know how to do it and do not want to do something wrong.

We have also ordered the basic obedience training video, as we feel that perhaps we need to view that and see if we have gone wrong anywhere - although he is trained to voice and hand commands and behaves well. None of my other rots have ever done anything like this, but they were raised by us from puppies.


So, are we on the right track? We just really need some advice because we don't know if he bit because he was afraid or what? If he is afraid, we don't want to scare him anymore, but try to fix his fear.

Thank You.

I had a dog that was almost exactly as your dog is described, he has been put to sleep now. I am glad you are taking the necessary steps to solve this problem. Fear-aggression may never be solved it may be genetic or from teh abuse. Don't have him around anyone without that muzzle on. Starting with the basic video is great! This training I found helped my dog immensly. He started coming out of his shell and was much happier till the end, he eventually tried to bite someone on one of our walks and I felt that was enough for me, several attempted bites and one landed bite, I could't risk it again. We too worked with an animal behaviralist, two vets, and two dog trainers. He was smart as a whip and learned quickly but he never trusted people and even tried to bite them even after all this. I am still so sad he is gone, but its better than a lawsuit.

I'm not a professional trainer so everybody feel free to contradict me. However it seems like your shy insecure dog relies on you for safety. When you greet people and allow them to pet him he believes he is safe. But in this case he was alone. Worse he was tied so he could not retreat. With no chance of flight he was left with fight. It would be interesting to know if your dog moved forward to greet your neighbor or if the dog moved away to the extent possible. My experience is that most people who casually come in contact with dogs pay no attention to warning signs short of a growl or snap.

Instead of having people walk up and pet him, I would have them hand him pieces of hotdog, or his favorite treat. Have people kneal down and let your dog approach them ALL ON HIS OWN(not vice-versa), and at his own pace. You might want to have them toss the treats at a safe distance first, for the risk of being bitten. Because the idea is just to build up a comfort/trust level with people first, which will progress the more you do it. And pretty soon, he'll be taking treats directly from their hands, and then maybe you can encourage petting. Because now, he doesn't know what people are all about, or what they're going to do when they walk up on him, maybe because of his past, lack of socialization, or both.

I think the most important thing is just to make sure your dog is doing everything on his own, and that will give him a sense of accomplishment and boost his confidence.

Hello,
I have never posted on the board, although I have lurked for months. You make a good point about the dog not understanding affection. Human affection is VERY different from dog affection. In fact, how we demonstrate affection is very aggressive in a dogs world, especially if it's from a stranger. There is the chance that your friend may have accidentally communicated this to your dog and your dog simply corrected her for the offence. I have seen a few dogs put down for exactly this. Quote from the victim, "I was just giving him a hug. I love dogs. He bit me and it was unprovoked." The dog is the victim in this type of situation. (perhaps your situation was different, but without being there it's impossible to know)
I think the others have posted good information. You have a dog that has probably missed some major developmental and socialization stages, perhaps combined with abuse. You gave the impression that he is friendly, so I assume this is the only incident.
You may never fully solve the issue, so the muzzle is a good idea as well as the stranger throwing treats. Once you get to hand feeding, as soon as it is safe combine the treat WITH petting so the hand over the head (most common way pople pet dogs and somewhat offensive to some dogs) is positively associated.
Good luck and please post results. This is an area of specfic interest to me.
Daniel

Human affection is VERY different from dog affection. In fact, how we demonstrate affection is very aggressive in a dogs world, especially if it's from a stranger. There is the chance that your friend may have accidentally communicated this to your dog and your dog simply corrected her for the offence.

I found this very interesting. Is there a book that explains this? I just ordered The Dog Listener.

Shelaigh,
There are several good canine books with pictures or illustrations that show dog and the stances that they use to communicate different emotional states, ie., fear, submission, anger, etc. A picture is really worth a thousand words in this respect.

The trouble with the book "The Dog Listeners" is that ultimately, the author starts to attribute human emotions to dogs and her recommendations go off on odd tangents. She is at heart an animal rights activist, not a dog trainer - and she is uncomfortable with the concept of dog ownership in general. It doesn't take a very experienced trainer to see many situations where her recommendation flat-out won't work.
My large AKC Ob club had two trainers actually attend one of the "Dog Listener" seminars in Great Britain ( they were there on vacation and planned on attending the seminar for the better part of a year ).
One of the handlers, a more old school compulsion type of trainer came back and simply rejected the seminar out of hand as "feel good B.S.". The other trainer attempted to incorporate some of the concepts into her training, which had many of us scratching our heads. Her training ability lapsed, and we saw her struggling in situations that she handled with ease in the past. Now, we hardly see her anymore.
That's pretty weird results from a seminar, in my book. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, but the book is more of a novelty that useful advice for dog training.

I have a GSD Czech line, she is so sweet and loving but is very afraid. When I first purchased her, within minutes she latched onto me and was leary of anybody but me. She never left my side. She didnt even respond to children. Anyway, long story short, she lunges aggressively at those who come to close or even look at her. She only accepts my imediate family, and is very, very slow to warm up to others. After several months of my mom and dad visiting her almost every day and giving treats, has she finally stopped growling. She would accept treats, give paw for them, but as soon as they motioned or said, come here...and in a soft loving way, she would growl or bark. I do not trust her with anyone. She is afraid of new sounds. I have socialized here early on, she comes with me to work everyday, and is in my office, she sees people, I take her for walks...etc. The breeder is trying to blame it on me for not socializing, but it is clearly fear. I have been told to put her down. I am at a loss as to what I should do or if I can help her. I keep taking her out and reassuring her when she is walking. Please help! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />