I'm having a problem with my dogs. I have a 3 year old medium sized mix who I have had since she was about 4 months old. She's very well behaved and she's very much a submissive type. She likes other dogs but does get annoyed with them- she's pretty lazy and would usually rather sleep than play.

My parents have another medium sized mix, about a year old. They got their dog after I already left for college, taking my dog with me, so the two of them only spend time together when I'm home. They got along really well, aside from my dog occasionally going in her crate to escape the incessant leg-chewing of my parents dog.

When they play, it's VERY rambunctious. My dog is super vocal and does a lot of growling/barking when she plays, so she sounds scary, but she's never shown any real aggression, aside from the problem I'm about to mention.

At Christmas we had one incident. What happened was, the two dogs were playing- running around, biting each others necks, jumping up on each other etc- when one of them (we're still not sure which one) got her mouth caught on the other's collar. As soon as she felt actual pain she immediately went from play fighting- to real fighting. The two of them went pretty crazy and it was scary to see. In the process of getting them apart I got my hand bit by one of them (again, not sure which).

However, after we got them apart and calmed down, it was like nothing ever happened. They tiptoed around each other for a bit, sniffing each others necks and licking each other like they were apologizing. Neither one drew blood from the other, and I'm sure if they had wanted to do some serious damage they would have, but they were definitely actually fighting and I'm afraid of what would have happened if we didn't get them separated.

I took my dog back to school and now I'm back for the summer. My dog is going to have to stay with my parents for a semester so the two of them will be together all of the time. We thought it was an isolated incident until today. They were playing with a big stick, when again, one of then accidentally hurt the other one with the stick (I heard the yelp) and they started fighting again. This time we got them apart with the hose, but not before my parents dog ended up with some punctures around her neck. It was really scary.

We can't keep them separated all of the time, but they are kept separate when we're not home and they're pretty much monitored all of the time when they're out of their crates. The problem is, they're so good together normally and it's only happened twice, so I have no idea what could trigger it and when. I'm really afraid that they're actually going to hurt each other if it happens when we're not around. Does anyone know why it happens? It seems so strange because they're both such good natured dogs and it's obvious that they don't dislike each other at all. Has anyone ever had this problem, or know what I could do about it?

" I'm really afraid that they're actually going to hurt each other if it happens when we're not around."

The short and true answer is: They cannot be left alone together. It really doesn't matter why. I applaud you for posting. You have been warned that leaving them alone together could very easily result in you coming home to a dead dog.

No, I am not being dramatic. This "... the two of them will be together all of the time" cannot happen.

Also, no toys, no food, no chewies left out.

Both need drag lines, IMO, for all times when/if they are together UNDER SUPERVISION.

PS

Incessant leg chewing? You don't mean one dog is allowed to do this to the other, do you?

Thanks Connie, that's pretty much what I thought. When I said that they will be together all of the time, I meant that they will be living in the same household, not that they will be alone together. When we're not around they're both crated, and they're supervised all of the rest of the time.

I just don't understand why they would do this... my dog, the older, more submissive one, is very obviously upset about the whole thing. Since it happened this afternoon she's been walking around barely making eye contact with her tail between her legs.
The younger one is the one who is actually bleeding a bit, and she doesn't seem to notice at all, but she's a bit more subdued than usual as well.

While they were going at it it was like they couldn't hear me or anything else. They were latched on and so focused. But as soon as the water hit them they broke apart and it was like nothing had even happened. They were sniffing each other's wounds and wagging their tails again.

Neither of them has ever shown aggression to another dog or even to each other except in these two isolated incidents.

The younger one does try to gnaw on the legs of the older one as she walks to try to incite her to play. She's not really "allowed" to do it, as we correct her every time, but the behavior isn't completely eliminated either.

 Quote: abby schuster

I just don't understand why they would do this...

They do it because they're playing too rough and it escalates and someone gets hurt and someone gets mad and now they're fighting. I agree with what Connie said, especially the drag lines. You need to watch them and intervene before it gets "serious" so they know where the line is. This is a good example of how there is a lot of body language going on that we don't even notice but they are communicating a lot. Watch them. When one is getting uncomfortable or pushed too far, I guarantee there are smaller signals. A quickly raised lip, a wrinkled nose, a sideways glance, etc. Teach them a command like "enough" and then use the drag lines to separate and calm them way before it escalates. This helps them learn to listen to you even when playing. Also that YOU will determine where the line is. Not them.
Good luck!

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this, but I'm going to be blunt and honest. We recently had a very sad situation by another forum member who ended up not keeping her dogs apart, even though there had been escallating aggression... and long story short, there was a horrific fight and one of the dogs had to be put to sleep.

I can't help but fear/see ahead to a post later this semester about how even though these two dogs had been getting along much better and your folks were right there when it happened, etc... I'd be concerned that each time this happens the dynamics of the dogs' relationship is changing and it could easily take less and less of an issue to instigate a fight.

I'd keep these two dogs apart period. Yes, it is going to be a pain in the neck, but it can be done. I really hope this works out for you, your folks AND both dogs.

The thing is, these incidents happen in the blink of an eye. No matter how vigilant, they happen when you are unprepared to stop it. They are both female? Apparently that can be a very volatile combination. You say they are mixes, but what breeds are in the mix? Is the one year old nearing maturity? Or just entering adolescence? I don't know if this is true, but now that they have gone over this line (of drawing blood), is there any going back? Will they trust each other again? Or will they always be at risk of escalating to that level?

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, it does make things difficult to constantly manage the dogs. I hope you aren't expecting the dogs to exercise each other through play. Are they well walked, OB exercises, etc. before they are spending time in the same space? Making sure their energy is drained might help to keep their play from going too far.

 Quote: melissa snider

 Quote: abby schuster

I just don't understand why they would do this...

They do it because they're playing too rough and it escalates and someone gets hurt and someone gets mad and now they're fighting. I agree with what Connie said, especially the drag lines. You need to watch them and intervene before it gets "serious" so they know where the line is. This is a good example of how there is a lot of body language going on that we don't even notice but they are communicating a lot. Watch them. When one is getting uncomfortable or pushed too far, I guarantee there are smaller signals. A quickly raised lip, a wrinkled nose, a sideways glance, etc. Teach them a command like "enough" and then use the drag lines to separate and calm them way before it escalates. This helps them learn to listen to you even when playing. Also that YOU will determine where the line is. Not them.
Good luck!

This is pretty much exactly what I had to say. I have a pack of three GSDs who play together. We have had a couple (thinking 3 in 5 years?) of scuffles, not fights, because there is a definite lack of seriousness to them. In my opinion, if it were a true fight, my dogs would do serious damage to one another instead of being pissed off and making a lot of noise. An outsider who didn't know my dogs and their play style would probably mark these events as "fights". These events have all started with one dog getting a little too rough and the other dog responding.

My dogs do things together all the time...they play together, walk together, do obedience together, etc. All these times work towards the greater picture...they learn to listen to me even if they are in the midst of the "pack". A simple "enough" or their name said seriously stops all play.

Oh and I forgot to mention that one dog lives with me full time and the other two are at my parents and then at my house sometimes. They are not a group that is together ALL the time and that requires special effort to keep things balanced.

Do I think your dogs need to be separated forever? Probably not, if you do the right things moving forwards...

 Quote: Jenny Arntzen

I hope you aren't expecting the dogs to exercise each other through play. Are they well walked, OB exercises, etc. before they are spending time in the same space?

Crucial!

Thanks for this post, I have my pack of two GSD male and female, just over a year now, I started to get lakadazy by leaving them unsupervised for short periods, with an eye and a yell to see all is well.

Since the weather has gotten hot, I started to wet certain spots of grass so they can be cool, again not 100% supervision, what worst I left toys in the yard. While I know better. No fights to tell, they get along well, want to keep it that way.

It is sure good to come and be reminded and share post with family. Dan

I think Barbara may be referring to my pack of five, it wasn't so much I couldn't keep them apart, rather they found any way possible to go to it, smashed crate, busted doors etc, my youngster had a neuro problem which triggered an explosive reaction which caused him to turn into an unrecognisable demon. Harry had a neuro problem in his line which was a ticking time bomb, and it unleashed itself terrifyingly more than once, from the bottom of my heart I hope you are saved from this; we miss out boy so much at hurts, but we truthfully had no option that pts.

My kind regards
Tracey