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Dog Testing
#29478 - 09/02/2001 10:12 PM |
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Hi Everyone,
Sorry to put this under Obedience, but there is no forum for my question.... it is, does anyone know of some good tests to evaulate "1 year and older" dogs for Schutzhund? Thanks in advance for your answers! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Leute mögen Hunde, aber Leute LIEBEN ausgebildete Hunde! |
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Re: Dog Testing
[Re: Lonny B. ]
#29479 - 09/03/2001 11:21 AM |
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Bernard Flinks has a series of tests he uses w/puppies, hopefully someone here will have a link for you. There is also the PAWS working dog evaluation by Jona Decker, http://www.malinut.com
Avoid the Volhard stuff like the plague, esp w/very young pups, you can find out why in *Elements of Temperament* on my web site.
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Re: Dog Testing
[Re: Lonny B. ]
#29480 - 09/03/2001 02:33 PM |
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Thanks Desert!
I knew I could count on sombody here to help out... keep em coming!
Lonny <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Dog Testing
[Re: Lonny B. ]
#29481 - 09/03/2001 03:13 PM |
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You are welcome, Lonny. There are many w/more experience than I in this. But, I can tell you what I look for: ball drive, ball drive and ball drive (or tons of drive for any toy, really). Combined w/good strong nerves and super confidence w/humans, new situations,etc. The *only* way you can ever really see what the dog has is to get him off of familiar turf and away from his owner/familiar humans. The dog who was a maniac for a toy at home may fall apart on strange territory.
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Re: Dog Testing
[Re: Lonny B. ]
#29482 - 09/04/2001 12:36 AM |
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I agree,
I just observed a dog that wants to join my club yesterday, I have mixed feelings on the dog, here is what I thought and found.
1: No prey drive at all with me on strange ground, she just looked at me like I was nuts, then when the handler came over, she went nuts for the rag.
2: I tried acting suspicously raising my hand and she got her hackles up and began to snarl, a show of weak nerves in my opion, if I had really pressed her she would have entered avoidence for sure. So I asked the handler about this and he said she does this when people come up to the house... not a good sign.
3: Obedience was marginal, with some work I'm sure she would be ok.
4: Scenting was very good, she found the hidden object first time round with no problem.
So I am wondering if I should tell this guy, your dog will never make the cut or let him train and try. Weak nerves are weak nerves and cannot be trained up as far as I know, true?.This is why I was looking for some good adult tests, moreover then what I already know...
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Re: Dog Testing
[Re: Lonny B. ]
#29483 - 09/04/2001 09:45 AM |
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****1: No prey drive at all with me on strange ground, she just looked at me like I was nuts, then when the handler came over, she went nuts for the rag.****
Lonny, where was the dog in relation to the handler BEFORE he came over? If she went nuts for the rag, there is some prey drive there, no?
****So I am wondering if I should tell this guy, your dog will never make the cut or let him train and try.****
I would let him try--if nothing else, it may help to raise the dog's confidence level and make her a better canine citizen. I would work her in prey ONLY--start with a rag, then a tug, then a sleeve on a rope and so on, just like you would with a puppy. If it works--great, if it doesn't--at least the handler will be able to see for himself why it doesn't work and his feelings won't be hurt.
As far as further testing for this dog, why? You've already established that she has a weak nerve, all you can see now is whether her prey drive will carry her through--be a good experience for everyone, IMO.
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Re: Dog Testing
[Re: Lonny B. ]
#29484 - 09/04/2001 10:46 AM |
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I agree. Let the handler work the dog, as long as it is prey work only! The last thing this dog needs is to be pressured. I'm not clear on why obed in a green dog is even an issue?
Good prey work really *can* bring a dog's confidence up and make the dog safer to have around, I've seen it.
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Re: Dog Testing
[Re: Lonny B. ]
#29485 - 09/04/2001 05:36 PM |
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Thank you very much you guys,
I decide to let him work the dog anyway I had the same thoughs you did about letting him try anyway, hopefuly it will build the dogs confidence and if not Oh well.... we tried...it's just nice to have a couple of other people confirm your thoughts... this is why I love this board! One point...
*I'm not clear on why obed in a green dog is even an issue?*
Why wouldn't it be an issue... as an adult dog I think Obed is a very important issue/sign of a dog that already shows good learning capibilities despite it's problems. I would not even start bite training an adult dog without at least marginal Obed for control. But this is just me.... I'm sure I'm going to hear some diffrent points of view. Hahahah
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Re: Dog Testing
[Re: Lonny B. ]
#29486 - 09/04/2001 06:41 PM |
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Well . . . as one who has learned the hard way, w/a dog esp who already lacks confidence, too much obed is going to make things worse. You end up w/a dog who keeps looking to the handler, ie *dad, protect me from that scary guy w/the tug!* *If* the training is motivational, and in drive, no harm done. The problem is, novices tend to be very, very heavy handed early on w/*protection* type dogs, ie GSDs, Rotts, etc and they squish the juice out of the dog before he's 8 mos old. They come in w/alot of misperceptions about protection/Sch and think they have to be a Big Tough Handler or they went to a totally nitwit obed class somewhere.
Pretty much any dog can be obed trained, I'd work on confidence building and show the handler how to throw some obed in w/toys, make it fun and games. You also do not want to run the risk of a weak dog getting a hard correction on the field right now. The dog needs to think the field is the Happiest Place on Earth. That can make a huge difference, really.
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Re: Dog Testing
[Re: Lonny B. ]
#29487 - 09/05/2001 06:08 AM |
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Ahh I see your point there, and I agree with you on squashing the fun and drive with too much Obed in a unconfident dog. I should have mady my point more clearly when I talked about the Obed testing... it was done as an overall assesment of the dog to be joined, as a point of refrence on where to start the dog in training.
I am very glad to have the voices of experience to help guide me here sometimes, I am new to the sport *not to dogs* and feel it is very helpful to have other people make your mistakes for you so to speak hahah, so if you ever see me making one let me know! Thank you very much for your input Desert, Renee too!
Lonny
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