Michele Alston wrote 09/11/2011 12:20 PM Possessive Chi #344107 - 09/11/2011 12:20 PM
Michele Alston Webboard User Reg: 12-30-2007 Posts: 89 Loc: Offline	Brother and sis in law got a chihuahua, Franny, last year and recently rescued another chi, TJ, 2 days ago. When my brother is on the couch with Franny, she is growling and snapping at TJ when TJ tries to get on the couch. Obviously Franny is being possessive. I've never really dealt with possessive issues before, so I'm not sure if my advice was sound. Id like to get a second opinion. I told him when this happens, immediately put Franny on the floor and allow TJ on the couch. Ignore Franny completely and continue to place her on the floor without saying anything if she tries to jump on the couch. Once she has stopped trying to get on the couch and is more relaxed, invite her up on the couch. Reward Franny with treats for calmly ignoring TJ or positive interactions between TJ. Rinse and repeat if necessary. I also suggested they teach on/off commands. Critiques/changes? What would you tell my brother to do?
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Gerald Dunn wrote 09/11/2011 12:37 PM Re: Possessive Chi [Re: Michele Alston ] #344112 - 09/11/2011 12:37 PM
Gerald Dunn Webboard User Reg: 02-20-2011 Posts: 127 Loc: La Porte, Texas Offline	was Franny asked to get on the couch? did they ask TJ to get on the couch? this is just me but I don't allow my Lab's on the couch. My house, my rules. TJ will need some time to fit in but your brother and sis MUST make the rules for both dogs.
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Michele Alston wrote 09/11/2011 12:55 PM Re: Possessive Chi [Re: Gerald Dunn ] #344113 - 09/11/2011 12:55 PM
Michele Alston Webboard User Reg: 12-30-2007 Posts: 89 Loc: Offline	I dont let my dogs on my couches or my bed either. But they want their dogs to have free reign of the couches. So no, neither were originally asked to get on the couch. I told them it will take some time for the dogs to adjust to each other. But once they adjust, the issue MAY go away on its own.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 09/11/2011 03:21 PM Re: Possessive Chi [Re: Michele Alston ] #344114 - 09/11/2011 03:21 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: michele alston Brother and sis in law got a chihuahua, Franny, last year and recently rescued another chi, TJ, 2 days ago. When my brother is on the couch with Franny, she is growling and snapping at TJ when TJ tries to get on the couch. Obviously Franny is being possessive. I've never really dealt with possessive issues before, so I'm not sure if my advice was sound. Id like to get a second opinion. I told him when this happens, immediately put Franny on the floor and allow TJ on the couch. Ignore Franny completely and continue to place her on the floor without saying anything if she tries to jump on the couch. Once she has stopped trying to get on the couch and is more relaxed, invite her up on the couch. Reward Franny with treats for calmly ignoring TJ or positive interactions between TJ. Rinse and repeat if necessary. I also suggested they teach on/off commands. Critiques/changes? What would you tell my brother to do? This resource guarding is a clear sign (to me) of pack structure problems. From an old thread, "the dog is more likely to be demonstrating his ownership of the valued item (including an owner who the dog perceives as his possession) and his unwillingness to share." More info: Is this just the couch, or the couch with the owner on it, or the attention of the owner that the first dog is guarding? Where else does it happen?
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Connie Sutherland wrote 09/11/2011 03:25 PM Re: Possessive Chi [Re: Michele Alston ] #344115 - 09/11/2011 03:25 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	.... they want their dogs to have free reign of the couches. And how's that workin' for them? Not being snide .... but I am saying that they are mistaken, when they have this clear problem. I told them it will take some time for the dogs to adjust to each other. But once they adjust, the issue MAY go away on its own. I don't think so. I think the first dog is demonstrating perceived ownership. This to me is a pack structure issue.
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Michele Alston wrote 09/11/2011 03:50 PM Re: Possessive Chi [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #344117 - 09/11/2011 03:50 PM
Michele Alston Webboard User Reg: 12-30-2007 Posts: 89 Loc: Offline	Connie, you are preaching to the choir. I don't know full details of the situation. Im in AL and they are in CA. On the phone, they only mentioned Franny snapping at TJ when my brother and sister in law are on the couch with the dogs. The only time I've had possessiveness issue was within the first few days of introducing a new dog to the family. Once the dogs got familiar to each other, it went away. Thats the only reason why I mentioned it MAY go away  Quote: Connie Sutherland This resource guarding is a clear sign (to me) of pack structure problems. No no no, you see, Franny is their daughter and TJ is their son <roll eyes>. There is no pack. I agree, working out the pack structure issues and reclaiming control of the couch is the best start to fixing the problem. I've already try to explain some rules they should have Franny follow, but they thinks its too harsh for their baby girl. So is this going to be a lost cause if I cant convince them of getting pack structure under control?
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Connie Sutherland wrote 09/11/2011 04:09 PM Re: Possessive Chi [Re: Michele Alston ] #344118 - 09/11/2011 04:09 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Maybe you could start with the fact that dogs are pack animals and that they want and need clear and reliable pack structure .... that it is not doing any dogs of any size a service to deny them the security of pack leadership. And that treating them like little humans is refusing to allow them to be what they are. Then maybe you could explain NILIF to them. And also the eagerness and the new confidence they will see in their dogs when they start marker training. A dog who is anxiously fending off an interloper from "her" possession (whether it's the couch or the owner) and a dog being attacked because of the "possession" are not dogs who are secure in the pack's structure or leadership. Seriously ... many owners (and often they are owners of small breeds), need the importance of pack structure to be put across in these very basic terms.
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Tracy Collins wrote 09/11/2011 04:13 PM Re: Possessive Chi [Re: Michele Alston ] #344119 - 09/11/2011 04:13 PM
Tracy Collins Webboard User Reg: 10-09-2008 Posts: 1917 Loc: St. Louis, Missouri Offline	There has to be a zero tolerance policy for any displays of aggression within the household. Infractions need to be quickly and memorably corrected by whoever is in charge. (and I don't mean Franny) There simply isn't any more basic rule of pack structure--all members feel safe and are protected from fear and assault. For a start, Franny should be on a leash inside so that she can be reminded the instant any growls or postures of aggression occur. This is not the sort of thing to let them work out on their own. Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon
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Connie Sutherland wrote 09/11/2011 04:17 PM Re: Possessive Chi [Re: Tracy Collins ] #344120 - 09/11/2011 04:17 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Tracy's post is a great way to get across that very basic bottom-line rule of pack structure. Every time the first dog is allowed to attack the second one, they BOTH learn that there is no human pack leader ... that they are on their own, with no security and no protection.
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Tracy Collins wrote 09/11/2011 04:37 PM Re: Possessive Chi [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #344121 - 09/11/2011 04:37 PM
Tracy Collins Webboard User Reg: 10-09-2008 Posts: 1917 Loc: St. Louis, Missouri Offline	I also don't think this has anything to do with the couch. If the owners want a household where everyone has access to the couch, so be it. (that's the way it is in my house too). Everything in the house belongs to me and I can share it any way I want to. It would only be a problem if a dog got the crazy notion that they paid for the couch and started deciding who could sit on it. Even so, it wouldn't be a problem with the couch, but a problem with the owner. A couch isn't any different than the kitchen rug or the car or anything else. Dogs don't "own" anything--with the exception of their bowl of food after I've given it to them. Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon
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