I would like some suggestions about developing prey drive in Sadie.

I adopted her when she was 2.5yo; she's three, now. She was from a home with small children, and most of her drives had been suppressed in that environment. I don't think she was allowed to tug or even had her own toys. She has no interest in playing, chasing balls or flirts, or biting (which is a separate issue that I will have to deal with later). However, I believe she has a solid genetic prey drive, as I have a difficult time redirecting her when she gets on vermin. She also LOVES chasing dragonflies, but they don't get nearly the same level of engagement that the rats do.
Can this drive be refocused to the toy-prey drive necessary for bite work (which is the approach my club is leaning toward)?
If she shows aggression towards an agitator before this is accomplished, can I let her go into defensive or fight drive without worrying about the prey drive?
When she watches bite work, she gets excited, but she's not interested in any material object. Could this excitement actually be prey drive and not aggression? The other dogs react when they see the equipment; she seems more interested in the crazy fool with the whip.

Duane,
A dog needs to have a *genetic* level of prey drive at about 5 out of 10 to do motivational bite work - any lower than that and it's just going to be frustrating for both you *and* the dog for training.

Some dogs just don't have it in them, that doesn't mean that they can't be great pets and companions, but they're not going to be work dogs.

When she hunts, is she in prey drive? I believe she has the genetics, gut has been suppressed environmentally.

Duane, these free Michael Ellis videos might answer some of your questions:

The Importance of ENGAGEMENT in Dog Training - especially about channeling the dog's drives starting @4:40.

My puppy does not seem to have much prey drive. What can I do?

Starting protection training with an older dog

It's my understanding (Will correct me if I'm wrong) that a dog that is in prey drive is also in hunt drive (ie. fast moving objects, live prey). An object or person in motion is what triggers prey drive to a great degree. Hence this is why running away from an angry dog is bad, it just kicks in their prey drive.

Fight drive is the want to engauge an "attacker". It's that burning desire in a dog with confidence to go in for a bite, and not out of fear, but out of want.

Defense drive is very tricky, most especially with the wrong dog. Putting a dog in defense is pressuring that dog into a fight scenario where its perceived by the dog to fight or die.

Having that prey drive when coming up against an "attacker" (decoy) starts to change into fight drive when engauging the "attacker", and should the "attacker" start to pressure the dog, it can put the dog in defense drive.

Every dog has different degrees of each drive, most dogs will go into avoidance when pressured, some will put on a show but have no fight. Others will have limited fight, but when the attacker fights back they dont know how to handle it and will go into avoidance. It's the rare occasion to find a dog that wants to fight, and when pressured or the attacker starts fighting back just fights harder out of fight drive and defense.

(Will , how did I do?)

Ben; prey drive and hunt drive are not two separate drives. A dog's drive to chase a ball or human evolved from it's ancestors natural hunting instincts. My dog has hunting instincts, and her drive for that is strong. She has no interest in balls and tugs.

Some people that I'm working with are assuring me that I can work around that because they see a lot of potential in the dog, and I'm trying to figure out how.

 Quote: Duane Hull

Ben; prey drive and hunt drive are not two separate drives.

Tomato, tomatoe.

IMO, prey is chasing something they can see. Hunt is chasing something they can't see. Some dogs don't/won't do both. Hence they are different. Basically sorta kinda.

Thanks, Ana. You hit the nail on the head. I pbly need to use food more dynamically to build some more chasing.
I really appreciated the info about channeling. It might not be as easy as it would be with a puppy (which is what Michael is working with in that seminar). Sadie was not played with as a puppy, and that behavior is deeply engrained. As Michael said, you want to start channeling OCD behavior at a young age. I am trying to channel, but she is already engaged with me when we are working and I can recall her from her hunting. She just does not give a darn about that darn ball!!

There is a difference in prey & hunt drive. A dog chasing a cat is in prey not hunt drive.

Prey is chasing an animal,a leaf blowing in the wind, a butterfly, a child running, a tug or toy on a flirt pole etc.

Hunt drive is just that...hunting, searching. Taking your dogs toy & tossing it far out into the woods & then asking you dog to 'find it'. The dog that will go out there & not come back until it finds the toy, even it is 2 hours or more later, has true hunt drive. A dog with excellent hunt drive is relentless in it's search. Search & rescue dogs need to have high hunt drive to do their job well. Search dogs usually have good prey drvie also.

But you can have a dog with prey drive & not true hunt drive.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. So, chasing the dragonflies would then be prey drive. I would have to be able to channel that to a tug somehow.