New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
#346062 - 10/04/2011 09:34 AM |
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I have 2 male dogs, ages 12 (Shepard mix, Baku, 100lbs) and 8 (pug/Boston mix, Auto, 40lbs).
They have been together for 8 years and do not fight. Baku is the laid back calm one. Eats last, does not get first pick of toys or bones. He really does not care and has always been like that, very laid back and docile. Its a system that works or worked.
Recently my daughter brought home a 10 week old rescue female (Shepard/hound/lab mix, Catalina). We fell in love and took her in. She was the most high maintenance dog I have ever encountered. Every bad trait a dog could have, she had. Over time (she is now 6.5 months) things are going well. She has turned into a great dog, with a lot of work.
From the moment she turned about 4.5 months they boys took a back seat to her, she ate first, got first choice of bones and toys. It was all still fine, no fighting or arguing.
Until recently..
Everything has been disrupted in the house. Even though Catalina gets everything first it seems Baku wants to be second. He does not tolerate any type of cross behavior from Auto and if it seems things are getting out of hand with playing he jumps in and tries to calm it down.
I have also noticed that Catalina will take Baku's side and fight along side him. Almost like she wants him to have more power and is leading the campaign. Frequently if something goes wrong both Baku and Catalina are against Auto.
Don't get me wrong Auto throughout time has been a bit of a bully, he starts to shark circle, will go take toys right out of Baku's mouth. He has been a pain to deal with but Baku just didn't care and ignored him. Now that is not the case. Now Baku cares.
So Baku started standing up to Auto (I have broken up 3 fights so far), Catalina is on Baku's side and Auto will pick fights with Baku but not Catalina.
To answer a couple questions .. Catalina is spayed (3 weeks ago), she is also kenneled when I leave the house so that there is no fighting (she seems to be the catalyst). All fights are broken up as soon as I notice they are starting, shark circling is not tolerated.
Today Catalina went after Auto over tug of war, I separated them once I realized it was going to get out of hand. Once I got her off the toy she death rolled him and latched on to his neck. I feel like its my fault because I tried to stop tug of war.
I just don't know what to do, I keep breaking it up but I want it to stop happening not just react when they have a problem.
Not to mention 3 dogs fighting, with only one me to stop it. Really not the easiest thing to accomplish. I look like a ninja and have to use both arms and both legs..
ANY advice would be great..
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Re: New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
[Re: Stephanie Lowrey ]
#346088 - 10/04/2011 02:40 PM |
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3 dogs are a PACK!!! Seperate them all if need be. NO TOYS EVER. If they are not there, they can't be fought over. Super solid OB needed for all of them, if you want to reintroduce them at some point & try again.
Put the pup on a leash at all times..can't cause trouble if he is attached to you.
Puppies & their 'enthusiasm' & want & need to play, can esculate things quickly to a fight.
No dog is allow to bully another. PERIOD, for any reason. That includes pups pestering older dogs or just being a PITA puppy. LOL They need to have boundries & trained to respect all in their pack.
Enjoy the puppy.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
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Re: New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
[Re: Anne Jones ]
#346095 - 10/04/2011 03:22 PM |
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X2, agree with Anne 100%. I have a harmonious pair at home, and take my Mom's pup a night or two a week for training. I hadn't experienced my dogs fight each other since Shortstack lost her puppy license -until bringing the 3rd dog over. Each time it's happened the "new" dog has gotten my two in fights with each other! Putting all toys away is a must, and I'll "wear" Hank on a lead tied to me when he's over. So far, so good with the new method.
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Re: New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
[Re: Chip Bridges ]
#346100 - 10/04/2011 04:29 PM |
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Stop worrying about (or even acknowledging) that your dogs are working out some heierarchy among themselves--who's first, who's second, etc.
the only ranking that matters is that you are number 1, and all dogs are equal #2.
Letting them work things out on their own is a terrible idea.
Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon |
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Re: New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
[Re: Stephanie Lowrey ]
#346101 - 10/04/2011 04:29 PM |
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The explanation is pack dynamics. It's very complicated and at the same time really easy. I have 3 males and a female that all live together with no problems but I watch them and it's amazing how they deal with inner pack issues. CM understands this stuff and it's what he tries to convey to people. YOU have to be in charge. I let them play rough but if it goes over the line they know they made a bad decision and learn from the correction. There's 20 toys around the yard to play with and I want them to be dogs and have fun, I enjoy watching them but if any real aggression pops up I'm harsh.
I only have 4 rules they MUST live by, no biting people, no fighting, no chewing house stuff and be 100% housebroke and they ABSOLUTELY know these 4 rules so you have to find a way to convey your rules to your pack, whatever it takes.
When the 3rd one is added it really starts a change, from the post you made I'd assume the new dog needs some obedience so start there. Video would help if possible.
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Re: New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
[Re: Tracy Collins ]
#346102 - 10/04/2011 04:40 PM |
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Stop worrying about (or even acknowledging) that your dogs are working out some heierarchy among themselves--who's first, who's second, etc.
the only ranking that matters is that you are number 1, and all dogs are equal #2.
Letting them work things out on their own is a terrible idea.
YOU have to be in charge.
...No dog is allow to bully another. PERIOD, for any reason.
I looked at the O.P. and thought "Oh, gosh, so much to address."
But this says it all, very succinctly.
PS
Stephanie, what kind of ob work are you doing with the new pup?
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Re: New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
[Re: Al Curbow ]
#346103 - 10/04/2011 04:44 PM |
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Al, your house rules are a lot like mine. LOL. The first three can be reduced to "keep your teeth to youself."
OP--set some rules and enforce them. For puppies, a leash is your best friend--nearly all the time--for at least a year. So often people's puppy issues arise from having given the pup too much freedom when they haven't earned it. I don't trust puppies any farther than I can see them, and since most puppies don't have reliable obedience, a leash gives you absolute control.
For older dogs, basic obedience solves a world of problems. A reliable "come" and "sit" can pretty much control any issues.
That, and exercise. Wound up dogs need a walk more than anything.
Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon |
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Re: New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
[Re: Tracy Collins ]
#346105 - 10/04/2011 05:13 PM |
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The puppy seems to be the issue, I can get the other two to knock it off quickly an effectively when I tell them to break it up or stomp my foot. They both move to their respective corners, but the puppy will not quit and its like she has ADD.
I have done basic obedience with her. She sits, comes, lays down and understands "out of the kitchen". I never leave her unattended, and watch her all the time. But she has focus issues, she listens when she wants to or a treat is involved. Shes alot better than she was and we are making great strides, but obviously not fast enough.
My dogs (even the puppy) do not bite, I can take toys or food right from their mouths and they will not even growl. Thats behavior I have never tolerated. But towards each other is a different story.
Example: If I take a toy away from Catalina she will in turn not go after me or even make a peep, she will attack Auto. Thats what throws me. I can just lead her into the house by her collar when she is not listening and as soon as I let her go she attacks Auto. Its the weirdest thing to me and I have never had this issue.
I did get them new bones today and the boys are separated from Catalina, all seems to be just fine besides her looking out the screen door and barking at them, because for some reason their bones look better.
It seems to be escalating and I dont know if that is because of her age, but it is very frustrating.
I would also like to say I appreciate all the comments and advice! I am listening intently!
How do I get them all to be number 2 instead of this infighting they have going? That seems to be my biggest issue I believe. I need them to be equals.
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Re: New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
[Re: Stephanie Lowrey ]
#346106 - 10/04/2011 05:28 PM |
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How do I get them all to be number 2 instead of this infighting they have going? That seems to be my biggest issue I believe. I need them to be equals.
Whenever one of them does anything that is a dominant or agressive posture, you have to correct it.
Stealing toys (or food), picking a "play fight," mounting, jumping on, mouthing, stalking, putting head or paw over another dogs head--all are doggie ways of saying "I think I can take you, punk."
When that happens, you correct the dog that's doing it.
Same way you would if the offending dog was trying to eat your house shoes or pee on the rug.
It's simply recognizing that dogs have a whole lot of behaviors that come "naturally" to them--chewing, peeing, and dominance postures, among many others. There's no reason that dominance postures have to be excluded from the things that are against your house rules.
I'm pretty much convinced that dogs will happily go along with whatever rules are established for them, as long as the rules are made clear. If they aren't following the rules, they simply don't understand what you want. Either because you haven't taught it, or you haven't made it clear that you mean it.
ETA: I think this kind of behavior also indicates that you need to "up" your own leadership in the household. The more dogs you have, the clearer your leadership has to be for everyone...otherwise a pushy dog will sense the crack in the leadership and act out.
But I don't mean being a dictator. I have five dogs that live in my house, and everybody gets along fine. But I don't put up with much BS. Little "rules" reinforced every day are enough to show that you are still in charge. Sit and wait before you eat. Wait for a release before you get out of your crate. Wait for a release before you get out of the car...things like that that "control" the important things a dog wants.
The mental picture I like is of a kindly but strict kindergarden teacher. Gentle, firm, by-the-book, but also enthusiastic and generous with praise. But don't cross me or you'll be sitting in the corner.
Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon |
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Re: New puppy is disrupting the order & causing fights
[Re: Tracy Collins ]
#346109 - 10/04/2011 05:33 PM |
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So maybe I keep the toys and bones away unless I can dedicate 100% attention to them (no distractions). That way as soon as she shows any type of behavior I can immediately correct it. Sound about right?
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